• OSWindows
  • Feedback from Microsoft OS engineers and something that is helping me

ensete Thanks for sharing. It is great that you found a fix and, especially, an explanation for the fix. And it is fantastic that you brought up your / our issues to Microsoft's high spheres. May this be the beginning of something! My laptop has become unusable after an update last week. I can't take it anymore. I really look forward to a "permanent" solution.

ryans Assuming your graphics card supports it, would a 360Hz monitor be even better?

Is it correct that the settings above say that I cannot increase the refresh rate of the laptop display, but do not imply that I can't use a 144 Hz or 360 Hz external display?

Where do I find the maximum refresh rate allowed by the graphics card? I cannot find it here.

Also, my laptop has two graphics card. It seems that the one used for the display is Intel UHD Graphics by default. Can that be changed and what are the downsides? Thanks in advance for any help!

Oshim No level of computing "efficiency coefficient" (??) is worth being in pain over. Win 7 will be all I ever use. I know people still rocking WinXP to this day. A computer is a tool not a statement of ones tech elitism.

Thanks for sharing. It is great that you found a fix and, especially, an explanation for the fix

Unfortunately all of a sudden, this solution ha failed for me and my symptoms are right back to where they were, with no explanation

    ensete Unfortunately all of a sudden, this solution ha failed for me and my symptoms are right back to where they were, with no explanation

    Bummer! Sorry to hear that. Did Windows or a graphics driver update (maybe it's not driving at 144Hz). Or a lighting change in the office?

    Wonder if the 360Hz monitor is worth a try?

    Is the eyepatch a "fallback" solution?

    Will you try to get in touch with the Engineer to see if any other theories could cause this?

    I wonder if this is a brain adaptation thing. I seem to recall you had Irlen lenses which helped, then stopped helping. A perhaps similar thing occurs with prism glasses -- patients may "eat" the prism and require stronger ones over time.

    • AGI replied to this.

      ensete Unfortunately all of a sudden, this solution ha failed for me and my symptoms are right back to where they were, with no explanation

      Sorry to hear that, but, to be honest, I am not surprised. 14 months ago I changed job and I was given a W10 laptop. I thought I would not make it. For a few days I had spasms not only in my eyelids but even my triceps and low back, not to mention the eye and neck strain. The symptoms slowly subsided. The eye and neck strain went on for a while longer, but after a month I had almost no issues. Now the very same laptop has become horrible after a BIOS update. At Windows level everything is the same as before. The display refresh rate has always been 60 Hz, so I do not think the refresh rate is my problem. In the past I used multiple PCs on W10 without major problems. I am quite sure the monitors were run at a refresh rate of 60 Hz. I am not saying that 144 Hz or 360 Hz would not help. I doubt that is the answer to my disability.

      I still think that talking to someone who develops Windows is a super added value.

      ryans I wonder if this is a brain adaptation thing.

      As I said before, somehow my eyes adjusted to my W10 laptop a year ago, as they had adjusted to my Oukitel phone two years ago. I have been running all possible updates on the phone for two years without experiencing any difference. In both cases I do not recall a precise moment when the device became usable. It was a very gradual process.

      On the other hand, in the past I worked for three years on a PC and a laptop, both on W7, which gave me constant issues. The only improvement over months was that I could manage the symptoms better at the end of the day. There was another shared computer, nominally the same as mine and using the same model of monitor, which was very gentle on my eyes instead. I figured out when I was about to leave that there was at least one difference between that computer and my PC. The graphics card.

      Further on brain adaptation, as I posted elsewhere, my orthoptist had suggested stopping with loose prism exercises for 6 months. I just resumed exercising and I can confirm that I have not maintained what I had learnt. I cannot carry out the exercises anymore using a high power prism.

      Hello everyone!

      Found something on the topic of Vertical Blanking… if we have a science guy here, maybe this can be explained as it means squat to me ☹️

      Here is the link: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/computer-science/vertical-blanking

      On a side note, has anyone tested if they feel better on Win 11 vs. the same display on Win 10…? I for one can upgrade immediately, but I am wondering if the whole exercise is worth it?
      Personally, I don't plan on returning to Win 7 and this "solution" is not viable for me.

        Oshim

        Relatively new here but I have been reading up some of the suggestions posted by different members of the community.

        So I have ordered multiple monitors both 8bit +144hz and (8bit +FRC) 144hz to test out with windows 11 machine. So far from my early testing I can say windows 11 is little easier on the eyes. Best way to describe is W10 gives me the cluster migraine that starts building up around my forehead while W11 is slow build up of dry eyes.

        I will make another post soon of my different testing of devices, right now I am testing Mac Mini M1, MacBook Pro 14 M1 Pro and couple of surface laptops one with intel chip and other one Ryzen. I have also bought multiple monitors. Fingers crossed 🤞🏼

          Nickx

          Wow, great news and great approach @Nickx ! I really like the idea of variety that you are going for!

          I would take dry eyes any day of the week compared to a deep brain discomfort/pain. I use artificial tears eye drops so I think I can live with dryness and moisturizing from time to time (1 to 3 times daily).

          I will give Win11 a try tonight with my Win10 build backed up on a hard drive ready to be restored.

          13 days later

          @ensete Have you given Neurolens a try? They unfortunately didn't help me, but the company who makes them gives a full money-back guarantee on the lenses, which is honored by most Doctors. I know you have spent a lot of money on this condition, but given this will not cost, it might be worth a try.

          Neurolens can now measure/prescribe with precision of 1/100 of a prism diopter.

          If you go, make sure you ask about vertical misalignment. The Neurolens measurement device measured vertical phorias but doesn't prescribe anything; the Doctor needs to write in what to do (since sometimes vertical prism is split between the eyes, or just one eye).

          They also collect data from patient outcomes and improve over time (I've been watching their clinical videos).

          Nickx (8bit +FRC) 144hz

          Hi, can you (or anyone else) please elaborate on 8 bit + FRC? I assume FRC stands for Frame Rate Control as described here. In other posts, I read that one should set the color depth to 8 bit rather than 6 bit. Why would you add FRC to 8 bit? And by the way, how do you add or remove FRC from the equation? Via a dedicated software? Thanks!

            AGI

            @AGI 8 bit + FRC is an attempt to emulate 10 bit colors. That is why you would add FRC to 8 bit.

            If your panel is 6 bit and you want to remove FRC colors will be unreal and washed out (I assume as I have never had a 6 bit panel). You remove it by going into NVIDIA Control Panel and selecting Color Depth to be 6 bit (Full).

            If your panel is 8 bit + FRC you can just select 8 bit color depth (Full) from NVIDIA Control Panel and you have removed the FRC from the equation.

            Hope this helps.

            • AGI replied to this.
            • AGI likes this.

              My IPS screen will list 8 and 12 bit, I understand it is a 6+FRC panel though. - what is 12 bit if its 8 or 10? (maybe I am not understanding)

              My TN screen only lists 8bit as it does not have FRC.

                HAL9000

                As I said, I have never had a TN panel…

                And these 12 bits I have never seen before 🙁

                Sorry! Maybe someone with a TN panel should reply here.

                HAL9000 afaik, TN panels accept up to 8 bit signals natively. Some are 6. If you are seeing any color profile above 8 bits and your panel isn't OLED or didn't currently cost thousands of dollars, odds are it's an 8 bit panel. Choosing anything above 8 bit will just use FRC (temporal dithering) to obtain those colors.

                If you are not sensitive to FRC, I'd say by all means, use the higher bit profile.

                Oshim Many thanks. I got a grasp of what you mean now. However, I am not given the option to change the color depth (or I do not know where to find that parameter) in the NVIDIA Control Panel. I believe that by default the OS determines what graphics processor is to be used, and the display is controlled by the integrated graphics.

                I see that in principle it is possible to select the GPU for each application. I was unaware of that. It looks like all applications except NVIDIA Control Panel and Adobe Acrobat rely on the Intel GPU.

                Do you set your computers differently, i.e., do your displays use the NVIDIA GPU?

                Cheers.

                  AGI

                  What do you mean "by default the OS determines what graphics processor is to be used, and the display is controlled by the integrated graphics" - this is completely untrue.

                  You have power over that. Just go to the back of your computer and plug the monitor in some of the GPU display ports or HDMIs or DVIs. Once plugged there, the OS has no say but to take video signal from the GPU 🙂

                  If you keep your monitor plugged to some of the motherboard's outlets, then yeah, you are going to be using the integrated graphics for sure… But you don't want that, you want the GPU to be displaying.

                  Hope this helps…

                  • AGI replied to this.

                    Oshim

                    Hey, thanks for your patience. I meant that the laptop standalone (without external monitor) and as shipped is configured to use the Intel graphics card for the display and for all the apps except Adobe Acrobat and NVIDIA Control Panel. As a non-expert, I was wondering why there is an extra graphics card then! I was not implying that I am not allowed to change those settings, I was just reporting what the default settings are.

                    Believe it or not, I have not made use of an external monitor since 2010 because of my unaddressed visual issues. But now I am struggling on the laptop too, so I should give a monitor a go.

                    Oshim Just go to the back of your computer and plug the monitor in some of the GPU display ports or HDMIs or DVIs. Once plugged there, the OS has no say but to take video signal from the GPU

                    Hey, I have just done that. The system uses Intel UHD Graphics even when it is connected to an external monitor.

                    NVIDIA customer support confirmed that that is how it is supposed to be. NVIDIA Quadro kicks in only when using Adobe Acrobat and when playing games (which I do not do).

                      4 days later

                      ryans Kind of the same. The monitor solution has completely failed and my symptoms are now exactly like they were before. I am back to patching to get through the workday.

                      I am trying to get an early client build of my companies Windows 11 setup to see how that works for me. My home PC is still on Windows 7 and will be forever.

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