AgentX20 Make sure you backup the old VBIOS first in case you need to flash back.

      AgentX20

      Do they DEFINITELY give you eye strain? I find I tend to get a small amount of nocebo affect when I know something may cause me issues. It's part of why I don't like reading this site too much

      person says x causes them issues
      It immediately plays with my mind and I think it may be an issue for me

      I bought a TV that is LED backlit a while back too and because I knew it was LED I would get low levels of strain/headache but it turns out that was just me imagining it and it's actually 100% fine. I think this is a big issue for all of us and makes things even harder to figure out.

      Did you try some of the oldest drivers to see if they're fine and what OS are you using? (I assume you did)

      980 was at the forefront though so maybe they started the dithering in that first and just implemented it on all the others later on.

      Is there no way to contact Nvidia and get them to give us details on changes they have made to the output in recent years + when, where, and what?

          JTL Make sure you backup the old VBIOS first in case you need to flash back.

          Sure thing! Bit of a pain as I have to uninstall the Nvidia drivers to flash safely so haven't done the updates yet.

            Soreeyes Do they DEFINITELY give you eye strain? I find I tend to get a small amount of nocebo affect when I know something may cause me issues. It's part of why I don't like reading this site too much

            I know what you mean, and I am conscious of it.

            However, as I push through trying these devices (screens, video cards, TVs) out, it's the fact that I walk away feeling rotten/seasick (with symptoms lasting into the next day) that I know this is more than just paranoia. Believe me, there's nothing more I'd like than a modern high power GPU and big wide screen to run my flight and driving sims on!! And I live in fear of the day my 54" Plasma screen dies. I've even stockpiled a spare CCFL backlit 24" screen I picked up second-hand.

            person says x causes them issues
            It immediately plays with my mind and I think it may be an issue for me

            That's because this is a very complex issue. There are so many different factors, possible causes and sensitivities at work here it can be both frustrating and depressing - with no obvious way to pin down the root cause.

            I bought a TV that is LED backlit a while back too and because I knew it was LED I would get low levels of strain/headache but it turns out that was just me imagining it and it's actually 100% fine. I think this is a big issue for all of us and makes things even harder to figure out.

            Good for you finding a screen that works for you. I have a 2013 15" MacBook Pro in front of me here that is PERFECT for me to use all day every day - and it's an IPS screen. The anti-glare coating is rubbing off so I could get the screen replaced but I'm worried what comes back won't work. I've used other laptops and other modern screens and more often than not they cause headaches. I've bought a 34" VA Samsung panel and an Acer 27" hi refresh low eye strain screen and had to on sell both as they just didn't work. Go back to my old Dell 24" CCFL screens and all is well. And I lose money almost every time I try these gadgets out so it's not like I'm not incentivised to want to like them.

            Did you try some of the oldest drivers to see if they're fine and what OS are you using? (I assume you did)

            No I've not tried older drivers. This same setup is perfect with a 970 card working GREAT. Drop the 980 in and the headaches start. I'm doubtful it's the drivers as this experience mirrors what I've seen with a host of more modern cards - 980Ti, 1070, 1080 etc.

            980 was at the forefront though so maybe they started the dithering in that first and just implemented it on all the others later on.

            It sure looks like it. I was just hopeful I could find something that works OK like my 970 and eek out a little more performance.

            Is there no way to contact Nvidia and get them to give us details on changes they have made to the output in recent years + when, where, and what?

            I think a few folks around here have tried this to no avail. We're too few in number to make them do anything much. And if there are lots of people in this situation (and I think there are based upon the Apple MacBook forum threads, and Apple iPhone X discussions) we're too dispersed due to the difficulties pinning down the root causes.

              6 months later

              AgentX20
              What driver version are you using for your 6950? I have a 7850 which I was able to use on my old machine with a quad core phenom II and windows 7. I recently put together a ryzen 7 build running windows 10 and the 7850 is causing eye strain. I tried installing drivers from 2013 (I can't remember the exact version) but no luck. I'm thinking maybe the windows 10 drivers are the issue. Unfortunately the Ryzen 7 is not compatible with windows 7 and my USB keyboard can't be found during install.

                  SeniorTaquito I was most recently (3-4 months ago) using the latest AMD drivers available for the card, on up-to-date Windows 10. I'm not home so cannot give you the specific version number but I never had ANY problems with the 6950 no matter the driver revision over many years.

                    a year later

                    I thought I would be fine with my 650 Ti Boost and K4000. But Keplar GPU has bandwidth limits and won't do 144Hz over at 2560 x 1440.
                    So I am acquiring a MSI Gaming 970 with BIOS 84.04.36.00.F1
                    My previous 970, which I stated for a long time was "good" but then I wasn't sure about in the end, and then stupidly sold, was BIOS 84.04.84.00.29.

                    I was thinking to try MSI 970 Golden Edition. Limited run edition near the end of 2014 which should have older BIOS one would think. This is different the other one I am acquiring.

                    • JTL replied to this.

                      In the GTX 970/980 thread, Harrison reports the same BIOS on his 970 as the card I was looking to buy, and found discomfort with it.

                      AgentX20 I wonder if the 980 is actually inherently bad or if the 980 you got had a higher VBIOS revision? I'm going to try and find a 980 with an earliest VBIOS as possible in 2014. The change happened late in 2014 / early in 2015 when the eye strain change took place in the VBIOS, so it would be very easy to buy both around the same time and have one have the bad VBIOS.

                          degen Go ahead - it'll be an interesting experiment. Me, I dunno what to report.

                          I've had a 980 and a 980ti and had strain with both.

                          I've had multiple G1 Gaming 970 cards, some good some not good. The good ones are all V1.0 hardware - and not 1.1. However, I've also got a 1.0 card that is bad - at least last time I tried it.

                          I have picked up one discernible difference however with the 1.0 hardware, that is - if I recall correctly the good ones (in my experience) all have hynix ram, and the bad ones have samsung ram. Why that makes a difference I've NO idea. There is a slight discernible difference in the cooling hardware (fins, heatsinks etc) that might suggest a different manufacturer... and hence maybe more differences, say in the output stage?

                          Anyway, the main hassle I had with any further analysis is that the BIOS files are now hard to get - in that Gigabyte doesn't list all the versions on their site any more, and it's hard knowing what's what on these other random collections elsewhere.

                          • JTL replied to this.

                              degen AgentX20 The 980 came out at the same time as the 970 (late 2014) and the 980Ti came out circa mid 2015.

                                    JTL Yep, exactly, and which is why I tried both the 980 and 980ti to see if they were "good" like my 970. Sadly they were not...

                                      3 months later

                                      Guys, did we notice yet that last year someone found the working Windows registry key for Nvidia cards to enable and disable temporal dithering at will, and posted it in the official Nvidia forums?
                                      https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/discover/288245/is-it-possible-to-quot-port-quot-dithering-from-nvidia-x-server-to-geforce-driver-/#5934577

                                      Sort by "oldest" and just after a few posts the member "Guzz" posts a list of all registry key states. Maybe you knew about it already and I somehow missed this.

                                        KM I think I posted about it and others did too last year. IIRC W10 updates kept breaking it, and also results seemed to vary on a card by card basis.

                                        • KM likes this.
                                          12 days later

                                          Gurm

                                          "Additionally, WINDOWS has multiple abstraction layers before the output makes its way the screen. Color Profiles, color correction, gamma... all applied at the driver level, the card hardware level, the windows API level, the screen composition level... then again at the input and output phases of the display unit.

                                          Windows 10 added ANOTHER layer, called "Composition spaces". The OS support for this began in the Anniversary Edition, which is why many of us find builds 1607+ to be unusable."

                                          Can this be of any help?

                                          https://github.com/Skymirrh/CompatibilityManager

                                          or

                                          https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/app_compatibility_view.html

                                              4 years later

                                              Anyway to disable those win composition layers ? Is there a Linux setup that's better than 1507 win10 / win7?

                                              dev