martin Ive seen a famous neurologist about this issue, but he has been of no help. Told me it is overuse syndrome, that man is not made to look into any display for 8 hours a day and that he can not help other than to suggest to take a month off all displays and see. Did not seem interested in my explanation about older devices not causing it and immediate relief there. Other suggestion was that it is psychosomatic.
It is difficult to find doctors interested in exploring new unexplained topics.

I 100% understand and agree, it is VERY difficult to find a neurologist who takes this disability seriously. It took my 6 tries before I found one and even he isn't great. Really what it comes down to is our issue is unknown, and practicing physicians aren't in the business of research and determining causes to unknown problem. They just put you through a treatment protocol, prescribe the treatment protocol directs, and moves you on your way. Our problem is largely unresearched, and just isn't well known. Most of the research concerning it is based out of the UK as well.

The one consensus I have been able to arrive at between my neurologists, ophthalmologists, and ophthalmologists is that it is a brain issue, not an eye issue

. Ive seen one post about macular pigment, has anyone here ever got it tested or tried to take supplements for it?

I tried various supplements and "blue light protection" pills, they don't do squat.

Has anyone else done this retinoscopy procedure?

I've had three full nuero-optholomogic workups, including that test and others. My rods, cones, optic nerve, pressures, everything is perfectly fine.

One thing though - dieting, e.g. consuming less calories than needed, makes this problem worse.

I have actually noticed that as well. When I am dieting, my sensitivities go WAY up

Has anyone been able to find any doctor who would acknowledge this problem and admit that it is a problem and is not psychosomatic?

My nuerologist knows it is a problem, and I've seen some biofeedback and nuerofeedback practitioners who are familiar with it. Anecdotally a lot of people seem to know people who suffer from it, but no one knows a treatment. I have run into a willful desire by the medical community to not want to acknowledge the issue or try novel treatments or research. It;s bewildering, but it is what it is.

I saw the top nuero as the second leading headache research center on the planet, and he acknowledged it is a known problem that simply isn't receiving a lot of attention. He's the one who told me that most of the research on the issue is coming out of the UK these days.

I'd be interested in knowing if IOP (Intraocular pressure) correlates with eyestrain.

I've had my IOP checked more times than I can count. Perfectly normal. Once again, all signs point to this NOT being an eye problem. It's a brain problem.

There is an increasing area of research growing concernign the effect of colors on eye health, brain health, and eyestrain/headaches. Irlen Syndrome has been picking up steam as an explanation for photophoia and an associated treatment, there is a new treatment called "Spectonics" that treats individuals inability to properly process light of a certain color, unfortunately licensed practitioners are few and far beween near me so I haven't been able to try it. Vision Therapy has been around for a while and can be used to treat perceptual abnormalities (a ot of folks with our problem report issues trying to "lock on" to images in certain screens, wth associated eye strain). I did a full 3 month course of Visual Therapy and it cured my sensitivity to 1 type of screen, credit card terminals. Unfortunately it did not help with PC or phone screens.

And when comparing phone screens now, it is incredibly clear that the screens that do hurt my eyes and the screens that don't hurt my eyes have different color balances. Glaringly obvious. Also dithering and PWM being on or off don't impact me at all. At this point, I am 99% certain my eye strain is caused by the color of the light/LED. Not saying it is that way for everyone, but it's the only symptom that fits in every single case I have experienced, and it where I am focusing all of my research and testing on from this point forward.

      ensete I certaily notice a huge difference in effect between colors of standalone leds. blue being the worst. followed by white(!) then red. green maybe is the least offensive.

      Have you tried the Alpha Stim thing- hooks up to your ear lobes and gives little shocks? I did that for a while & it was interesting.

          JTL Nah, you'll probably be fine. These things are handed out like candy, and only a small percentage of people get any adverse effects.

            ensete Thanks for that long post ensete. I always have time for what you have to say. Your issue is definitely a fascinating one given that you were able to pinpoint it down to something as specific as color schemes!

            I totally agree that the issue is more likely with the brain than the eyes. That's where the odd sensation will start, and although it has aching eyeballs that comes along with it, it almost seems like it's coming from behind the eyeballs (like where the head of the optic nerve is). That's just me speculating though.

            It's so odd how some monitors will give me an instant "eye-grain" I want to call it (within a couple minutes). There's various different computer monitors throughout the office, and when working deskside with certain people, I have quickly learned the ones that give me instant problems. Here's a short list:

            • Dell P1913
            • Dell U2413
            • Dell U2713H

            I first knew something was up way back in December 2011 when I built a brand new gaming PC with a Samsung SyncMaster S24A850DW, and I suddenly didn't want to use it because of the way it made me feel. It was similar to the symptoms the monitors in the list above would give me. Instead, I sold the like-new monitor at a -60% firesale to a friend/colleague at work who's still using it to this day.

            The only lowest common denominator I was able to come up with was the LED backlight. All operating systems were Windows 7, with the Samsung being used on a Zotac GeForce GTX 580 AMP! and the work monitors being used on an Intel HD Graphics 4000 (likely integrated given the small form factor of the Optiplex 9010 housing it).

            The setup I'm using both at home and work that avoid this type of headache (aside from pure reading overuse headache, which is a different set of symptoms), is a Dell U2410 on 0% brightness, "Warm" color scheme, and f.lux enabled @ 5000K. When working on color-sensitive work like web graphics, I will revert my monitor setting to default, and disable f.lux. This will cause my "eye-grain" symptoms I described above with a sharp "cold" pain behind the eyes, and a pain deep in the head. This is still tolerable for a few hours though, as it's not as bad as an LED monitor.

            Interestingly enough, I was diagnosed as having "Irlen Syndrome" back in April 2014 by an Irlen consultant, but since I wasn't able to find any Irlen lenses that seemed to make a big difference, I basically just "considered" the theory and kept it in the back of my mind.

            Perhaps avoidance isn't the best long-term strategy, but for a few years now, it has been working for me. I basically just refuse to look at any person's monitor at work that is an LED, preferring to remote into their PC using Skype for Business and talk on the phone. Hey, whatever works right!?

                Do you know of glarminy website about light sensitivity? I have been in contact with Uros, who made the site and suffers from a very widespread light-sensitivity comparable to the one local user @ensete described. I have tried the filters he offers and must say that they really do seem to help - https://glarminy.com/blue-filter-tester/
                For me as a photographer I need to do color accurate work, and already #7, which is clear, seems to give me some relief. Its still not perfect, but the discomfort does not develop into that stinging behind-the-eye pain and migraine.
                I still need to do more testing though, with a clear head, as when I didnt sleep well or hung-over, the symptoms are easier to start.
                I agree with @ensete now that the problem is probably color related. And unfortunately LEDs come in many colors, so this filter might not work on other devices. Currently testing it on iphone SE, which is unusally aggressive and even my healthy friends mentioned that something is wrong with the display.

                ensete it's definitely an interesting effect, but I havent had access to one since I've been focused in on LEDs etc

                  MagnuM Perhaps avoidance isn't the best long-term strategy, but for a few years now,

                  This was my strategy for a long time, however now that auto manufacturers have been plastering LED's all over their cars, the problem is no longer avoidable. I've taken a more active role signign up for class action lawsuits, contact auto manufacturers, trying to get the NHTSA to acknowledge the problem, getting my senators involved, but i'm getting pretty much nowhere. But I'll keep fighting. It's criminal to use a technology that hurts people and deploy it on public roadways.

                  Do you know of glarminy website about light sensitivity?

                  Never saw that before, I'll check it out. I have visited techsensitve.com which has some info on this. Edit: Just bought the kit, why not give it a shot

                  I agree with @ensete now that the problem is probably color related.

                  Another thing to realize is that LED's are banged out in cheap Chinese foundries at the lowest possible cost. Things like flicker, accurate color reproduction, color temperature, none of that is considered, just shaving the price down to as few fractions of a penny as possible. Cheap LED's definitely cause me way more problems and unfortunately we live in a world where cheap rules everything else.

                    Let me know if the kit makes any difference to you. I am still testing but so far the result seems the same - number 7, which is only one I can use for color sensitive work, really seems to ease the pain. Its still somewhat annoying, might still have to look and focus elsewhere every once in a while, but it really seems to stop that main migraine and stinging headache I usually get from fully developing.

                    Uros who runs the site has a table of commercial filters corresponding with each number. Ordered them and will see how that goes.

                    degen What kind of doctor would you see for the jaw problem? I read in photophobia article on wikipedia that - Elevated trigeminal nerve tone (as it is sensory nerve to eye, elevated tone makes it over reactive). Elevated trigeminal tone causes elevated substance P which causes hypersensitivity. Often due to jaw misalignment.

                    Id like to see someone to try and get it fixed or aligned differently, but have no idea which specialist would do such thing.

                        martin It's all over the place, ENT, Orthopedic surgeons, dentists, all have different solutions, and unless you have super amazing insurance (even here in Canada), it's going to cost, so, so much money.

                        Currently my family doctor has sent me to a maxillofacial surgeon to evaluate surgical treatment for my stuck (left TMJ) and herniated (right TMJ) disks, which I have been waiting for an appointment for months. Likewise I have seen dentists who want me to wear appliances (different from bite guards as the purpose of these is to shift the jaws into a new position over a period of months/years).

                        The commonality is they all want to do imaging that is not covered by anything I have and is very expensive, and random assessment fees (even from the MDs, not just the dentists) that you think would be covered by my government insurance, but nope.

                        It's extremely frustrating getting help for TMJ disorders..

                            degen Well, thats not very motivating. Ive set up a meeting with an acupuncture specialist, some tend to be very good at releasing certain muscle and nerve tension at fraction of the price of some medical specialists, so why not try.

                            However I wanted to report here that I am more and more convinced that my problem is indeed bluelight related. I have tested the toughest filter number 0 from https://glarminy.com/blue-filter-tester/ and it seems to work perfect. Unusable for color accurate work, but it seems to get rid of 95% of the pain. The clear one number 7 helps too, but less, as its on the far end of filtering. I still get some slight irritation after very long use, but that might be the dither, PWM or other cause.

                            Therefore my conlcusion so far is that I really do lack MPOD (macular pigment optical density) in my retina, and my retinas cannot filter out blue light. Apparently some LEDs on older iphones etc. were made differently, but newer LEDs have different additions and manufacture due to saving more battery life, so they might be more aggressive -

                            "Today, many white LEDs are produced by pairing a blue LED with a lower-energy phosphor, thereby creating solid-state light (SSL).[3] This is often considered “the next generation of illumination”[3] as SSL technology dramatically reduces energy resource requirements." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_blue_light_technology)

                            I would recommend everyone to try the filtering glasses, as its the easiest option available I could find, compared to getting diagnosed for IRLEN syndrome, which seems similar but the centers are only in USA and UK, so for me a bit out of hand. I would love to hear if you have any help with those and if yes, which number.

                            What I do not understand, is why apps like flux, iris or nightmode on iphone do nothing for me in easing the pain.

                                martin Well it's not motivating but it's not sugar coated either.

                                Yea I like acupuncture too. Works by releasing myofascial trigger points (the actual thing that causes chronic pain in our muscles and of course referred pain). It's even better if the practitioner realizes this because you can then direct them to the affected muscles and trigger points instead of them focusing on meridians (which are usually located at the position of some common trigger points anyway, guess that's what thousands of years of trial and error will get you).

                                I get dry needling with an acupuncture needle between my eyeball and the orbital bone. Absolutely the best relief I have had but sometimes causes bruising. I've been told by a couple of ophthalmologists not to have it done because if the blood gets to the back of the eye it could put pressure on the optic nerve and damage my vision, but I still get it done despite those warnings and the bruising.

                                Thanks for your report on the filters, I believe I am very sensitive to blue light and will order them as well and report.

                                  11 days later

                                  martin What I do not understand, is why apps like flux, iris or nightmode on iphone do nothing for me in easing the pain.

                                  Well, those apps don't eliminate blue light. They create an overlay, but your video driver is still sending a signal to the LED to output light, and the physical structure of the LED is set up to emit blue.

                                  I was on the blue light train, but I bought a pair of Blu Blocker sunglasses, and confirmed via a handheld spectroscope that they completely block all blue light (all the blue bands on the spectroscope were black) but they did not help my symptoms one iota.

                                  So it may be something else being emitted by that blue light emitter, not the blue light itself, which is the problem. Remember now that they are involving phosphors in LED's, that means the LED's are emitting UV light that is interacting with the phosphor to make visible light. This is how florescents and CFLs works, and there is a lot of UV leakage in that set up, as well as very, very poor CCRI and Color temperature reproduction.

                                    Thank you for the reply, its good to consider. I think for proper measurement you need a spectrometer that produces a spectrogram, and not only a spectroscope though. At least it would be amazing to be able to measure whether the displays that do not feel painful do emit very different wavelengths and whats their !intensity! than those that do. Or test as many displays as possible, to have comparison and see.

                                    In any case, regarding the blue light train, did you get your MPOD measured? I started another thread with this question. I know this problem is definately tech related, but there simply must be some measurebale difference between me and people who dont have any issues with this. For me, blue light blocking glasses seem to ease the pain, but mostly just postpone it - however I never had them covering my whole face, so reflected blue light or small amount getting around them could explain this.

                                      martin I've had the million dollar nuero optical exams, my eyes are fine. Remember, this is not an eye problem. It's a brain problem. You feel the strain in and around your eyes because your brain in misinterpreting some signal and telling the muscles around your eyes and head to misbehave, cause pain.

                                          I am 40, and first noticed symptoms in about 2010. for me it is very obvious when I am being affected; I can tell within a few seconds. There have been devices that have been consistently ok, but most seem to go in phases. When I first noticed it, it was on my work laptop. I noticed by accident that if I un-docked the device that I could see clearly with no problem. I made the connection that the problem only existed when I was connected to the Internet. The next PC I had issues with was not a laptop, but the feeling of not being able to focus my eyes, and a kind of sinus pressure feeling was unmistakably familiar. For a while, I could unplug the Ethernet cable and everything would be instantly fine. After some time, unplugging the Ethernet cable did not work anymore, and my “brain fog” “anxiety” “morning sinus headaches” became too much to deal with and I resigned. I was able to use my home computer without issue for a year until I got another job, then after some time… same symptoms.
                                          My eyes sort of “wash out” I cant focus them on the text. I get a sinus pressure feeling, my heart races, that night I wake up all night long, then the next day sinus headache. I know it does not sound like a technological problem BUT IT IS! The onset of the symptoms is as pronounced and predictable to me as watching a movie i’v seen a hundred times. it's like groundhog day.

                                          The next job I got I was allowed to work from home. If I went into the office with my laptop… Always vision issues. If I worked from home always fine, with the same laptop. Then I started having trouble when using the VM a client Had provided. Non-of my tricks worked on that machine and the symptoms got bad. Very acute anxiety. Strobing peripheral vision progressing to full on visual snow. Terrible brain fog, dementia like symptoms, all culminating in a sort of psychotic episode (I have no personal or family history of mental illness.)

                                          I have a number of tricks that work most of the time… but to play it safe I am solely using a Dasung Paperlike for the time being, and it is great! I always feel uneasy that my set up will not maintain protection, so with this I believe the technology is incapable of causing me harm because it emits no light.

                                          There is lots more I am choosing not to say. <cough><cough>

                                          As for the medical reason-- I assert that this is a TECHNOLOGY problem, but I may be more sensitive to it either because of a history of concussions when I was a kid or because of stress. I have had the issues in the absence of stress though, so I know it is ,in essence, technological and not medical in nature. there has been near perfect correlation between my symptoms and use of certain devices over an 8 year span. never an issue with dvds or movies or anything like that.

                                          I am thankful this site exists! I have gotten too many razed eyebrow blow offs from the medical community.

                                            ShivaWind I am sorry to read that. Its good you figured out how to navigate modern life. However I still believe its a combination of both - tech and health. Otherwise there is no way how some people can use the devices I cannot without problems. Its simply "bad" tech combined with some health/body difference compared to other people who do not have the issue. Looking for a thing that answers both questions at the same time:

                                            What is different with modern tech compared to the old one I can use? (pwm, dithering, blue light...)
                                            What is different with me compared to other people who do not have this issue? (eyes, brain, sensitivity...)

                                            Can help find solution to the problem I believe. I wrote down a list of things Im going to go through one by one, until I either run out of ideas or find the common denominator. It will require some medical testing, and also tech testing with advanced tech that I might need to visit some university or work places to use.

                                            Also the common denominator might be different for everyone, so I do not think we can find a universal answer here, although it would be nice. Im afraid everyone will have to find that common denominator for themselves.

                                              ensete I understand. But I think if the doctors do not know what to look for exactly, they are as good as blind no matter how much money their technology cost. We have different health system here and my friend who is a doctor suggested she could perform some scans on me. However said that since she has no idea what to look for, the radiation Id get during that exam is not worth it.

                                                dev