I've been trying a few Windows laptops after failing miserably with Mac OS since 2018. Same issues most people describe, difficulty focussing on text, off-centre movement detected, dry eyes , strain and headaches.

I took delivery of a HP Spectre 14 last week running W11 21H2 and installed ditherig and all was good, even had banding on the default wallpaper which is nice to see ;-) . The Spectre also uses DC dimming and felt pretty good, way more tolerable than recent Macs. I then restarted and unwittingly picked up 22H2 and boom, eye strain within 10 minutes and the usual symptoms as above. First I down-revved the video driver from 30.1 to 27.x with no effect. Rolling back fixes this for now. Had similar things with the Mac. My trusty 2017 Kaby lake MacBook is nowhere near as pleasant to use on recent versions of the OS. Would love to know what's going on.

Also as a footnote. The spectre demonstrated pretty well to me that different browsers render differently with Edge being way nicer than Firefox (and slightly better than Chrome) when it came to reading the BBC news using all 3 for comparison.

And the struggle continues

    5 days later

    CRoebuck I then restarted and unwittingly picked up 22H2 and boom, eye strain within 10 minutes and the usual symptoms

    Same thing here. Last Friday a reboot of my business laptop was forced for the recurring monthly installation of security patches. At restart I immediately developed eyestrain and neck pain. Today I checked and verified that, once again, an upgrade to Windows 22H2 passed through, most likely together with the security patches. The third attempt of Microsoft to sneakily upgrade my Windows after I have deactivated automatic upgrades.

    I just reversed the install of the package but it will take a while before I can judge if my laptop is usable again. My eyes, neck and upper back are screwed and will be so for many hours, potentially a couple of days. I hope nothing else was upgraded (graphics drivers etc).

      5 days later

      My laptop rebooted again and reinstalled version 22H2. Really annoying but at least this time - for reasons I do not know as it is the same update as last week! - Windows Update Settings showed that my device was up to date, so I could pause updates until April. I uninstalled version 22H2 probably for the fifth time. Since then in the morning when I open the lid I find the screen in BIOS mode and I am asked if I want to continue to boot. No idea why. The keyboard is also illuminated and the fan is often on, which was not happening before (any suggestion?). Once the laptop has rebooted, the version is 21H2.

      Answering here @ryans 's question from another thread, my laptop's display adapters are Intel UHD Graphics and NVIDIA Quadro P520. The PC on W10 22H2 (OS Build 19045.2486) I can use without excessive "eye damage" mounts Intel UHD Graphics 630 and NVIDIA GeForce GT 730. I shall say that I use this PC to run a piece of equipment, so I do not do any prolonged reading and I do no browsing at all. It also took me a while to adjust. There is another PC that bugs me but I can now handle without long-term damage. I thought it was on 22H2 but it is on 1909 and the display adapters are Intel UHD Graphics 630 and NVIDIA GeForce GT710.

      I claimed win too early.

      Is this going to happen every second day now? In theory, updates were blocked until Apr 5 but my laptop shut down and installed version 22H2 anyhow.

      Does anyone know how to stop this?

      Also, looking at the list of the restore points, why is the description of the "event" different from time to time, although the "event" was always the install of the KB5015684 package? Any input is appreciated, thanks!

        Staycalmsyndrome I have administrator rights on my business laptop but bypassing my IT Admin without his approval may lead to unpleasant scenarios. I am afraid this is not a solution for me but thanks for letting me know. It could apply if I decided to buy a private PC or laptop!

        • Jack replied to this.

            This is not pertinent to version 22H2, so I will keep it short. In the last 7-10 days I have used for many hours per day a PC with Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC, Version 1809, OS Build 17763.2366. The display adapter is Intel UHD Graphics 630 and the monitor is an Asus VA24EHE. This setup is so bad that I not only have eye strain and the feeling my eyes and face are swollen, I even feel disoriented when I stand and walk away from the station. Sort of dizziness/vertigo and additional flashes in my eyes. I should note that I have pushed myself to work in quite dim conditions as there has been little sunlight coming thru these days and I have opted for keeping off the super-bright and flickering LED overhead lighting. Symptoms are different to the ones caused by 22H2 but I would not be able to tell what is worse.

            6 days later

            I was using Win11 21H2 as good as always with my Dell P2317H from 2016. I bought a S2721DGF, returned, after a S2421HN and returned again and after a P2423D and returned again. Three very different monitors from 2020 to 2022 and all of them caused eye strain, fatigue, difficult to focus and all the stuffs that everything here knows well. This is the topic https://ledstrain.org/d/2134-i-dont-know-what-to-do-and-feeling-that-im-running-out-of-options

            So, I bought a LG 29UM69G from 2017 and it worked very well like my P2317H. Yesterday I update the Windows to 22H2 and boom my eyes got tired quickly with some eye pain. I've tried to update my RX 6600 videocard, adjust ClearType but it still weird. It's not pleasant and easy to focus just staring at the screen like was with the monitors that I returned.

            That is bizarre. I thought it was red phosphor from NanoIPS, after flickering, after antiglare screen and other stuffs and was a relief find a monitor that I could use and after a Windows update, not changing graphic card, driver, monitor and nothing more this bizarre thing happens.

              7 days later

              Patoli H. Yesterday I update the Windows to 22H2 and boom my eyes got tired quickly with some eye pain. I

              Did you try Windows 10 22H2? Or just Windows 11?

                  ryans Only 11. 21H2 was fine until change monitors. With the last monitor that was fine I tried to update to 22H2 and everything that was good became bad. I tried to change AMD driver update (Microsoft recommendation) and no changes. I rolled back and everything came back to normal. Bizarre.

                  After that I changed the RX 6600 for a RTX 3070 and no problem. The change of Windows version caused more trouble than changing graphic card (hardware) and driver (software) and that's crazy. They did something really bad that is hard to explain.

                  I had problem with current monitors with 21H2 but old monitor with 22H2 was unexpected. Trying to find reasons about monitors causing strain is more pausable than trying to understand what they did in the system that also causas strain, even with a perfect fine monitor for our eyes.

                    I was testing Win11 today on the Steam Deck. 21H2 not 22H2 since you all hated the current release so much.

                    It was so-so. Useable, but not better or the same as my current Intel setup with 10. Maybe sub-optimal drivers (very possible), or sub-optimal video-out on the dock for it (also possible).

                    The user interface however is awful, if there is a choice and it not imposed on you, I don't know why anyone would want to use 11 over 10.

                    8 days later

                    I had used the OS below quite comfortably for a while.

                    Edition Windows 10 Pro

                    Version 21H2

                    Installed on ‎11/‎08/‎2022

                    OS build 19044.1889

                    Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4180.0

                    Last weekend I was forced to install four new updates:

                    1. KB5015684
                    2. KB5023696 (showing as Security Update in the Control Panel)
                    3. KB5022502
                    4. KB5020872 (generating the entry "Servicing stack 10.0.19041.2664" in the Control Panel)

                    The OS changed to

                    Edition  Windows 10 Pro

                    Version 22H2

                    Installed on        ‎11/‎08/‎2022

                    OS build               19045.2728

                    Experience          Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4190.0

                    I uninstalled update 1., as already done in the past multiple times, and got back to Version 21H2. However, this time Build and Experience did not return to the state prior to the installs.

                    OS build               19044.2728

                    Experience          Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4190.0

                    I proceeded to uninstall KB5022502, but there were no changes to Build and Experience. Also, to my surprise, a new update was installed in the process, namely, KB5015730 from August 9 2022. I uninstalled this one too. Again the uninstall was not a mere uninstall. The update was replaced by an older update (KB5004331 from August 11, 2021). I had never noticed this before, that an update is replaced by another update upon uninstall.

                    Since my goal was to restore the 21H2 Build and Experience prior to the forced installs and given that it is not possible to uninstall Servicing stack 10.0.19041.2664, I proceeded to uninstall KB5023696 (Security Update). Finally the Build reversed to 19044.1889 but the Experience did not change.

                    A week after my eyes still hurt like hell without any sign of improvement. A couple of questions. It looks like new security patches generated a new Build. What are "Servicing Stack" and Windows Feature Experience Pack? Can these affect the visual experience? Is there a way to restore an old Experience Pack? Thanks.

                    Just confirmed that servicing stack updates are irreversible. They should not affect image rendering.

                    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/update/servicing-stack-updates

                    Servicing stack updates improve the reliability of the update process to mitigate potential issues while installing the latest monthly security update release and feature updates.

                    • Once a servicing stack update is installed, it cannot be removed or uninstalled from the machine.

                    I ended up doing a system restore. The laptop rebooted and showed the warning below (I am not surprised as a year ago attempts to recover from an unwanted BIOS update always miserably failed).

                    Perhaps the only positive thing is that the Experience of the OS went back to what it was before the most recent updates.

                    Edition Windows 10 Pro
                    Version 21H2
                    Installed on ‎11/‎08/‎2022
                    OS build 19044.1889
                    Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4180.0

                    However, the service stacking installed in the last bundle of updates is still in the control panel. I do not get it.
                    Opera and Firefox, which I installed after creating the restore point, have not disappeared, and I get a few errors/warnings (for example, Skype is not working anymore). The taskbar does not look as before the updates either (there are some Bing icons to the right of the Type here to search field).
                    It looks like the recovery of the system occurred only partially and not in a clean manner. I am given the option to undo the restore and I may take it after playing around a bit more and checking whether the system has become smoother on my eyes or not.
                    I should mention that prior to doing the system restore I scanned all the programs and drivers that could be affected. The list was infinitely long. There were so many recent updates of drivers of any sort that I was completely oblivious of, including from HP and NVIDIA. I am not an expert but I worry that all those sub-updates contained in the update package may screw up the screen and not fully reverse even if the Build and the Experience go back to what they were.
                    What do you guys reckon? Have you tried to undo updates by using an old restore point, and were you successful? Thanks.

                    • AGI replied to this.
                      9 days later

                      Oshim

                      I did a back up and went to Win11 22H2. Also went for the latest NVIDIA GameReady driver version which is 527.56
                      IT IS FUCKING AMAZING!!!!

                      hello Oshim, glad to hear that someone managed to solve the problem
                      can you clarify your hardware/software configuration?

                      Mobo: Asus TUF Gaming Pro Z390
                      GPU: GTX 1080 MSI Armor OC RTX 3080 12GB
                      Monitor: Gigabyte M32q connected via DP, 50bright/50contr
                      OS Win11 22H2 22621.963
                      GPU driver 527.56, RGB full range 8bit 60-164Hz
                      ICM color profile https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/9YjCcDlV/gigabyte-m32q/rtings-icc-profile.icm
                      monitor "driver" .inf from GB CD/site
                      did I correctly list the key components of your setup?

                      a few more questions if you'd like:

                      1. what is the full name of the 3080 model?
                      2. did you feel the difference with your previous 1080 graphics card?
                      3. have you tried connecting the monitor via HDMI?
                      4. do you use HDR in OS/monitor ?
                      5. have you tried turning on/off the color profile?
                      6. have you tried change "monitor driver" m32q.inf to default "PnP monitor" ?
                      7. did you feel the difference between 60hz and 164hz, relatively temporal dithering?
                      8. did you install any Windows updates or use clean 22h2?
                      9. what method do you use to control temporal dithering OFF? own feelings? image sample? ...?
                      10. Do you have any discomfort in UEFI BIOS screen ? (not in OS)

                      sorry for so many questions, I don't lose hope to get to the bottom of the problem 🙂

                            glvn

                            Please see my answers below:

                            1. what is the full name of the 3080 model? - ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 3080 OC EVA Edition

                            2. did you feel the difference with your previous 1080 graphics card? - Not a bit, if anything, the new GPU is even better

                            3. have you tried connecting the monitor via HDMI? - No, never needed to

                            4. do you use HDR in OS/monitor ? - No, only SDR

                            5. have you tried turning on/off the color profile? - As of the current moment ICC profile is turned off/not used as I love the more saturated color

                            6. have you tried change "monitor driver" m32q.inf to default "PnP monitor" ? - It shows as default "PnP monitor"

                            7. did you feel the difference between 60hz and 164hz, relatively temporal dithering? - No temporal dithering noticed, more so because I have 8 bit color in the NVIDIA control panel

                            8. did you install any Windows updates or use clean 22h2? - Clean 22H2, OS build 22621.963, updates disabled

                            9. what method do you use to control temporal dithering OFF? own feelings? image sample? ...? - NVIDIA control panel set to 8 bit, 32 bit color, RGB, full range. Sample image below - you can clearly see the banding (which helps you determine if there is dithering)

                            10. Do you have any discomfort in UEFI BIOS screen ? (not in OS) - None whatsoever


                                Oshim Sample image

                                thanks for the replies and the sample image, on my work PC(win7 + HD630 + Philips 243V over HDMI) I see a slight horizontal banding 🙂

                                last question, can I ask for a screenshot of the GPU-z utility on your current graphics card?

                                    8 days later

                                    AGI It looks like the recovery of the system occurred only partially and not in a clean manner. I am given the option to undo the restore and I may take it after playing around a bit more and checking whether the system has become smoother on my eyes or not.
                                    I should mention that prior to doing the system restore I scanned all the programs and drivers that could be affected. The list was infinitely long. There were so many recent updates of drivers of any sort that I was completely oblivious of, including from HP and NVIDIA.

                                    I undid the restore and the screen still hurt badly. Meanwhile I noticed that the BIOS version had changed, and in the past I had had issues after a BIOS update. I downgraded the BIOS to the last version that did not give me issues, and my laptop is again usable. Next I will progressively kick in updates one by one. I expect the BIOS version to change when installing certain update packages. If that happens, I will restore the old BIOS version and see if I can keep up with new OS builds / versions.

                                      dev