I was using Win11 21H2 as good as always with my Dell P2317H from 2016. I bought a S2721DGF, returned, after a S2421HN and returned again and after a P2423D and returned again. Three very different monitors from 2020 to 2022 and all of them caused eye strain, fatigue, difficult to focus and all the stuffs that everything here knows well. This is the topic https://ledstrain.org/d/2134-i-dont-know-what-to-do-and-feeling-that-im-running-out-of-options

So, I bought a LG 29UM69G from 2017 and it worked very well like my P2317H. Yesterday I update the Windows to 22H2 and boom my eyes got tired quickly with some eye pain. I've tried to update my RX 6600 videocard, adjust ClearType but it still weird. It's not pleasant and easy to focus just staring at the screen like was with the monitors that I returned.

That is bizarre. I thought it was red phosphor from NanoIPS, after flickering, after antiglare screen and other stuffs and was a relief find a monitor that I could use and after a Windows update, not changing graphic card, driver, monitor and nothing more this bizarre thing happens.

    7 days later

    Patoli H. Yesterday I update the Windows to 22H2 and boom my eyes got tired quickly with some eye pain. I

    Did you try Windows 10 22H2? Or just Windows 11?

        ryans Only 11. 21H2 was fine until change monitors. With the last monitor that was fine I tried to update to 22H2 and everything that was good became bad. I tried to change AMD driver update (Microsoft recommendation) and no changes. I rolled back and everything came back to normal. Bizarre.

        After that I changed the RX 6600 for a RTX 3070 and no problem. The change of Windows version caused more trouble than changing graphic card (hardware) and driver (software) and that's crazy. They did something really bad that is hard to explain.

        I had problem with current monitors with 21H2 but old monitor with 22H2 was unexpected. Trying to find reasons about monitors causing strain is more pausable than trying to understand what they did in the system that also causas strain, even with a perfect fine monitor for our eyes.

          I was testing Win11 today on the Steam Deck. 21H2 not 22H2 since you all hated the current release so much.

          It was so-so. Useable, but not better or the same as my current Intel setup with 10. Maybe sub-optimal drivers (very possible), or sub-optimal video-out on the dock for it (also possible).

          The user interface however is awful, if there is a choice and it not imposed on you, I don't know why anyone would want to use 11 over 10.

          8 days later

          I had used the OS below quite comfortably for a while.

          Edition Windows 10 Pro

          Version 21H2

          Installed on ‎11/‎08/‎2022

          OS build 19044.1889

          Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4180.0

          Last weekend I was forced to install four new updates:

          1. KB5015684
          2. KB5023696 (showing as Security Update in the Control Panel)
          3. KB5022502
          4. KB5020872 (generating the entry "Servicing stack 10.0.19041.2664" in the Control Panel)

          The OS changed to

          Edition  Windows 10 Pro

          Version 22H2

          Installed on        ‎11/‎08/‎2022

          OS build               19045.2728

          Experience          Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4190.0

          I uninstalled update 1., as already done in the past multiple times, and got back to Version 21H2. However, this time Build and Experience did not return to the state prior to the installs.

          OS build               19044.2728

          Experience          Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4190.0

          I proceeded to uninstall KB5022502, but there were no changes to Build and Experience. Also, to my surprise, a new update was installed in the process, namely, KB5015730 from August 9 2022. I uninstalled this one too. Again the uninstall was not a mere uninstall. The update was replaced by an older update (KB5004331 from August 11, 2021). I had never noticed this before, that an update is replaced by another update upon uninstall.

          Since my goal was to restore the 21H2 Build and Experience prior to the forced installs and given that it is not possible to uninstall Servicing stack 10.0.19041.2664, I proceeded to uninstall KB5023696 (Security Update). Finally the Build reversed to 19044.1889 but the Experience did not change.

          A week after my eyes still hurt like hell without any sign of improvement. A couple of questions. It looks like new security patches generated a new Build. What are "Servicing Stack" and Windows Feature Experience Pack? Can these affect the visual experience? Is there a way to restore an old Experience Pack? Thanks.

          Just confirmed that servicing stack updates are irreversible. They should not affect image rendering.

          https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/update/servicing-stack-updates

          Servicing stack updates improve the reliability of the update process to mitigate potential issues while installing the latest monthly security update release and feature updates.

          • Once a servicing stack update is installed, it cannot be removed or uninstalled from the machine.

          I ended up doing a system restore. The laptop rebooted and showed the warning below (I am not surprised as a year ago attempts to recover from an unwanted BIOS update always miserably failed).

          Perhaps the only positive thing is that the Experience of the OS went back to what it was before the most recent updates.

          Edition Windows 10 Pro
          Version 21H2
          Installed on ‎11/‎08/‎2022
          OS build 19044.1889
          Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.4180.0

          However, the service stacking installed in the last bundle of updates is still in the control panel. I do not get it.
          Opera and Firefox, which I installed after creating the restore point, have not disappeared, and I get a few errors/warnings (for example, Skype is not working anymore). The taskbar does not look as before the updates either (there are some Bing icons to the right of the Type here to search field).
          It looks like the recovery of the system occurred only partially and not in a clean manner. I am given the option to undo the restore and I may take it after playing around a bit more and checking whether the system has become smoother on my eyes or not.
          I should mention that prior to doing the system restore I scanned all the programs and drivers that could be affected. The list was infinitely long. There were so many recent updates of drivers of any sort that I was completely oblivious of, including from HP and NVIDIA. I am not an expert but I worry that all those sub-updates contained in the update package may screw up the screen and not fully reverse even if the Build and the Experience go back to what they were.
          What do you guys reckon? Have you tried to undo updates by using an old restore point, and were you successful? Thanks.

          • AGI replied to this.
            9 days later

            Oshim

            I did a back up and went to Win11 22H2. Also went for the latest NVIDIA GameReady driver version which is 527.56
            IT IS FUCKING AMAZING!!!!

            hello Oshim, glad to hear that someone managed to solve the problem
            can you clarify your hardware/software configuration?

            Mobo: Asus TUF Gaming Pro Z390
            GPU: GTX 1080 MSI Armor OC RTX 3080 12GB
            Monitor: Gigabyte M32q connected via DP, 50bright/50contr
            OS Win11 22H2 22621.963
            GPU driver 527.56, RGB full range 8bit 60-164Hz
            ICM color profile https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/9YjCcDlV/gigabyte-m32q/rtings-icc-profile.icm
            monitor "driver" .inf from GB CD/site
            did I correctly list the key components of your setup?

            a few more questions if you'd like:

            1. what is the full name of the 3080 model?
            2. did you feel the difference with your previous 1080 graphics card?
            3. have you tried connecting the monitor via HDMI?
            4. do you use HDR in OS/monitor ?
            5. have you tried turning on/off the color profile?
            6. have you tried change "monitor driver" m32q.inf to default "PnP monitor" ?
            7. did you feel the difference between 60hz and 164hz, relatively temporal dithering?
            8. did you install any Windows updates or use clean 22h2?
            9. what method do you use to control temporal dithering OFF? own feelings? image sample? ...?
            10. Do you have any discomfort in UEFI BIOS screen ? (not in OS)

            sorry for so many questions, I don't lose hope to get to the bottom of the problem 🙂

                  glvn

                  Please see my answers below:

                  1. what is the full name of the 3080 model? - ASUS ROG STRIX RTX 3080 OC EVA Edition

                  2. did you feel the difference with your previous 1080 graphics card? - Not a bit, if anything, the new GPU is even better

                  3. have you tried connecting the monitor via HDMI? - No, never needed to

                  4. do you use HDR in OS/monitor ? - No, only SDR

                  5. have you tried turning on/off the color profile? - As of the current moment ICC profile is turned off/not used as I love the more saturated color

                  6. have you tried change "monitor driver" m32q.inf to default "PnP monitor" ? - It shows as default "PnP monitor"

                  7. did you feel the difference between 60hz and 164hz, relatively temporal dithering? - No temporal dithering noticed, more so because I have 8 bit color in the NVIDIA control panel

                  8. did you install any Windows updates or use clean 22h2? - Clean 22H2, OS build 22621.963, updates disabled

                  9. what method do you use to control temporal dithering OFF? own feelings? image sample? ...? - NVIDIA control panel set to 8 bit, 32 bit color, RGB, full range. Sample image below - you can clearly see the banding (which helps you determine if there is dithering)

                  10. Do you have any discomfort in UEFI BIOS screen ? (not in OS) - None whatsoever


                      Oshim Sample image

                      thanks for the replies and the sample image, on my work PC(win7 + HD630 + Philips 243V over HDMI) I see a slight horizontal banding 🙂

                      last question, can I ask for a screenshot of the GPU-z utility on your current graphics card?

                          8 days later

                          AGI It looks like the recovery of the system occurred only partially and not in a clean manner. I am given the option to undo the restore and I may take it after playing around a bit more and checking whether the system has become smoother on my eyes or not.
                          I should mention that prior to doing the system restore I scanned all the programs and drivers that could be affected. The list was infinitely long. There were so many recent updates of drivers of any sort that I was completely oblivious of, including from HP and NVIDIA.

                          I undid the restore and the screen still hurt badly. Meanwhile I noticed that the BIOS version had changed, and in the past I had had issues after a BIOS update. I downgraded the BIOS to the last version that did not give me issues, and my laptop is again usable. Next I will progressively kick in updates one by one. I expect the BIOS version to change when installing certain update packages. If that happens, I will restore the old BIOS version and see if I can keep up with new OS builds / versions.

                            24 days later

                            Hi guys, news about Windows 11 best version for eyes.

                            I still use 22h1 and It's ok for me

                            For the record; I just have a small separate pc with Win11 22H2 Insider with all updates, but this pc Im connecting to my main pc (Win10 22H2 with all updates) via a capture card, which is an Avermedia Live Gamer Extreme G550.

                            Im not sure if this method is producing a better environment for the eyes, but personally so far I can tell I don't have any problems (I have problems with new displays and games with the ominous glowing/focusing produced strains).

                            What I'd like to tell is if you have the opportunity to experiment with such HW trials, give it a try, maybe it can help.

                            Best for all of you.

                            • AGI likes this.
                            2 months later

                            glvn Hello! I am here for all the same reasons - eye strain and other stuff. Bafore 2023 never experienced anything similar. In March 23 bought MacBook Pro 14 and sold it in two weeks because it was horrible for my eyes. Now I am on old Lenovo Carbon X1 Gen 5. Bought a new one Lenovo Carbon X1 Gen 10 beacause my old one became slow. After some work on it (Win 11) i found that I have the same symptoms. Installed Ubuntu on it - the same.

                            I restored laptop to factory defaults and gave it a pause. Yesterday I started again but all the time I was surfing through UEFI BIOS and did not installed any OS!

                            And I found your 10 question "Do you have any discomfort in UEFI BIOS screen ? (not in OS)". So I am in this case - I feel the same symptoms as in last MacOS (Ventura), last Ubuntu, Win 11 and UEFI BIOS without OS. Is it pointing to something new about OS or cartain laptop or something else?

                            Thank you

                                recye That would indicate hardware triggering your issue not software

                                Our issues can be triggered by hardware, software, or both

                                    ensete But when UEFI BIOS is "showing me" something (like menus, lists and other options) it is also done by some kind of low level software, mayby some unified display driver. When I connect external displays (i have got two of them) to my old lenovo - everything is OK, but when I connect them to a new Lenovo - i have eye strain. External monitors are the same

                                    • glvn replied to this.

                                        recye Some folks believe on here that the motherboard could be at fault, perhaps by always dithering.

                                        Did you try ditherig?

                                        Are you interested in empirical research by using a lossless capture card + VideoDiff?

                                        • AGI replied to this.
                                            6 days later

                                            recye When I connect external displays (i have got two of them) to my old lenovo - everything is OK, but when I connect them to a new Lenovo - i have eye strain. External monitors are the same

                                            sad but true 🙁

                                            now I can only confirm the effect of dithering 1.11 on desktop intel hd630 (windows 7)

                                            try on linux: "% sudo intel_reg_write 0x70008 0xc0000040 # no dither"

                                            does your lenovo carbon x1 gen 5 have hd530 or hd630?

                                              ryans Did you try ditherig?

                                              Have you tried it? I have been hearing about this for long, but never understood if it kills it or it is the nth potential fix that works only for someone and only for two days and then the eyestsrain is back...

                                                  dev