Usable Smartphones?
I just received my ohsp-350f today. I've been looking at devices I have for blue light and flicker. Also have been checking light bulbs and Christmas lights. LG G8X which is my daily driver has <240hz flicker with massive depth of 80%. iPhone SE 2022 which seems to have no flicker. Will do some more testing on the rest of the devices I have.
Hello everyone, we are discussing the same topic on the 4pda.to forum, there have been a lot of people with the problem of intolerance to modern smartphone displays, and it doesn’t matter what display type IPS or Amoled, we came to the conclusion that manufacturers began to artificially (hardware or software) add saturation to screen colors using the same FRC or TD, which kills our sensitive eyes worse than any PWM, we have already tested the MI 12T PRO - it also causes headaches and eyestrain despite the rather high PWM frequency, my Mi 10T PRO cause a headache , although there is an IPS, we also had a version that eye-killing settings come with new firmware, which kills even good old smartphones.
In general, the problem is serious, although not yet very common, yet most people do not have problems with their eyes when using new phones.
Wow. That is some pretty severe PWM in that video!!! That would fry my eye's too.
Regardless, I don't believe what you're experiencing is psychosomatic. If you're feeling symptoms manifest whilst using particular devices and not others, then it's likely to be a reaction of some sort to the display tech/software.
I think some of the recent dithering issues that are circulating may be due to android itself (v12/v13).
I've updated my realme 9 pro recently to android 13. The text contrast/sharpness has increased, as well as the color saturation. I've immediately noticed a difference compared to before.
I'll definitely NOT be updating any of my other devices when prompted to.
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Have you tried an app like color calibrator, to reduce contrast/saturation??
I've found it helps on some devices
Vividblu99 some people tried Oled Saver or PWMfree (outdated), someone use reducing blue light and protonomaly.
me and some people complain about the "Flashlight in the Eyes" effect, after which photosensitivity appears, it is also difficult to read text on some screens, it is difficult to focus, nausea appears, we think it is due to pixel shaking (dithering).
Vividblu99 hi. Have you found any budget phone that has zero pwm and zero td? (In your own testing with a microscope and slo mo cam)? I am open for older models too.
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Personally - I've found no PWM or temporal dithering in the oneplus nord ce 2 lite 5G, Realme 8 5G, Realme 9 Pro 5G, Realme X50 5G, Nokia G60, Realme 7 5G, and recently, the Oppo A77 5G.
However, another member on here mentioned they felt temporal dithering on the Realme 7 5G, but from my own tests, I couldn't detect it.
These were all tested on Android versions 10/11/12. Not Android 13.
I've had other phones, like the Redmi Note 9T, Poco M3 Pro, Poco M4 Pro 5g, Moto G62 etc, but at the time, I only tested for PWM, and not dithering. So can't confirm if they were TD free.
The Realme 9 pro recently updated to a beta version of Android 13 - and I've noticed an increased text sharpness and saturation. I'm planning on testing it again to see if temporal dithering is now being used. (I hope not).
To make these phones comfortable, I've done some tweaking, as in, all had anti glare matte protectors applied, and some required me to shift the color balance to natural/cooler, and others Saturated/warmer etc. Text & display size was also adjusted, and the display brightness is usually kept at the lower end, as the higher the brightness, the more the text becomes sharper, making reading uncomfortable. I sometimes also use external apps like Twilight and Color Calibrator, to reduce contrast, increase the redness tint etc.
But none were perfect right out the box. They ALL required some sort of adjustment.
I've been lucky (thank god!!!!) That these have so far, worked for me without causing eye strain/eye fatigue.
I can't use any amoled/oled phone at all - as my symptoms immediately appear. I'm interested in trying the poco m5s as its amoled without PWM (allegedly).
I just hope this android 13/dithering issue isn't true - because this means if I update them, the screen dynamics might change and the eye strain might appear (as recently noticed on the realme 9 pro).
Vividblu99 I use the Realme 9 Pro with the Android 13 Update now for over 2 Weeks. Also with matte screen protector. I feel no difference compared to Android 12.
I also currently have no luck with OLED display at all. I hope that this could change next year with the new OLED Display like E6 with high pwm frequency. The Vivo X90 Pro+ seems to work with 1440 Hz on low brightness and 720 Hz on high brightness. Xiaomi 13 Pro 1920 Hz and 360 Hz. Source Digital Chat Station over Weibo.
Vividblu99 Thanks! Could you post an example video that you shot, capturing TD on a phone? A single one will do. Just to make sure we're all "on the same page".
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BloodyHell619 I believe the vast majority of past Samsung AMOLED mobile displays used around a ~240Hz PWM frequency, and what could be different between them is the "duty cycle" of the waveform, often expressed as flicker coefficient by some light meters.
Conclusion: we don't have a 100% tight causality between Pwm/TD and our complaints? I have tested the Nokia G60 and same bad feelings arise….
Sure.
Here is an example of the TD I captured using a slow mo bust of 960 fps on my sony camera for the Oppo A74 5G - magnified through a cheap usb microscope at the highest setting.
This is definitely temporal dithering right?
For comparison, here is the same set up captured for the Realme 8 5G
For some reason, I'm noticing a sharpness increase after the update 
I'm on a Beta version though. I haven't received the stable update yet.
The cause could possibly be a reaction to advanced display technology in & of itself.
Older devices didn't cause me strain, but in retrospect, I didn't use my phone as much as I do now.
The reliance on smartphones has magnified substantially within the last 6 years. From banking, social media, trading apps, to reading ebooks, messaging apps. People use their phones way more now.
There was not this type of reliance before.
Yes, I could easily use computers & laptops for hours on end without issue pre 2015, but displays back then were mediocre (in comparison to what is offered now).
Now, it's common for full HD/4K super ultra high resolution definition displays, billions of colors, with all the bells and whistles etc. Maybe we're not used to it & our eye's aren't accustomed, or maybe we're not meant to be using it at all for long periods of time....
There are NO concrete health studies looking into the long term effects of this type of high definition advanced technology, especially being used at such close proximity for lengthy durations.
If someone is not resonating with either Amoled/Oled/LCD, it's possible it could be an actual sensitvity to advance display technology itself, & unfortunately, It won't matter what type of display tech is used, as the person will feel some negative impact, regardless.
Keep in mind, the vast majority of manufacturers all use displays that are produced and designed by the same companies, in the same factories, and are slightly tweaked in terms of specs & display optimization.
Notice how in 2022, there is a resurgence of the water drop display notch in budget devices such as the Nokia G60, Oneplus N300, Realme 9i, Xiaomi Redmi 10, Poco M5, Oppo A77 5G, Samsung A23 5G, Honor X8 5G etc etc), this isn't a coincidence, it's because these are all being designed and manufacturered by the same ODM's - and all use similar parts, specs & displays.
So in essence, the differentiation between them all is very minimal, with the most changes being software based only.
As this is the case, there won't be much difference between the handsets released by competing popular manufacturers each year. Therefore if someone is using a recently released device, there won't be a change in comfortability when switching to an alternative recently released device, as they all basically use the same parts & displays.
Vividblu99 yes, i agree.
There is one thing on our hand; problems with screen is now widely acknowledged. Having said this,3 years ago my eyes were hurting…now days it is mainly a nausea/dizzyness/headache issue. It could be the manufacturers "repaired" the eye strain, and this headache thing is a byproduct.
Sometimes I think this platform should not be used, instead we all should move to apple or Samsung forums. In these days the mantra is: problems are only problems if they are present online (&trending). And if they are mentioned in a "talkshow", than it is a real "problem". I would say all manufacturers are sensitive to their online branding. Just a thought as an alternative solutions for testing a lot of phones (as I do…)…
Greetz.
Ps when I return a phone I always mention "due headache" as I am sure it will appear in some statistic, hoping there are more people with this reason for returning….with the aim the expensive returns will be presented to the national importers/manufacturers
@Vividblu99 I ordered and tried a Realme 9 Pro and it's up there with the worst devices I've tried. It feels similar to symptoms dithering gives me which is not just eye strain. Not sure why it's so bad for me, but it's going back.
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JTL I believe the vast majority of past Samsung AMOLED mobile displays used around a ~240Hz PWM frequency, and what could be different between them is the "duty cycle" of the waveform, often expressed as flicker coefficient by some light meters.
Yes, I think you are right. The flickering looks exactly like my Dad's S21 FE which Notebookcheck.net says flickers at around 240Hz.
@JTL @Vividblu99 can you tell anything about the frequency and duty cycle of the device from the footage captured from the screen?
Because notebookcheck.net says that the Galaxy a80's display "uses PWM and flickers at about 240 Hz over the whole brightness range of the display" but when I capture the screen of my mom galaxy A80, above around 30% the lines that are moving across the screen stay the exact same but below 30% they become bigger and bigger as you reduce the brightness.
If this has to do with the frequency, then this literally means that the same device could have a completely different screen tech from another one of the same. This makes everything so damn complicated.
bz12 I ordered and tried a Realme 9 Pro and it's up there with the worst devices I've tried. It feels similar to symptoms dithering gives me which is not just eye strain. Not sure why it's so bad for me, but it's going back.
This is really crazy. Just like how I felt with the Realme 7 5G. Could it really be that the same device could be produced with a different screen in different places of the world?
I think We need to buy a microscope and start testing devices ourselves. I don't dare to buy a new phone anymore.
Leachim38 yes, i agree.
There is one thing on our hand; problems with screen is now widely acknowledged. Having said this,3 years ago my eyes were hurting…now days it is mainly a nausea/dizzyness/headache issue. It could be the manufacturers "repaired" the eye strain, and this headache thing is a byproduct.
Sometimes I think this platform should not be used, instead we all should move to apple or Samsung forums. In these days the mantra is: problems are only problems if they are present online (&trending). And if they are mentioned in a "talkshow", than it is a real "problem". I would say all manufacturers are sensitive to their online branding. Just a thought as an alternative solutions for testing a lot of phones (as I do…)…
Greetz.
Yes! We absolutely need to do this. There are enough of us here now experiencing these issues to know that we are not crazy. And these companies know themselves what kinda new crap they are introducing into their display's so if we get their attention enough they will have to speak out and end are maddening confusion.
Wayfarer86 some people tried Oled Saver or PWMfree (outdated), someone use reducing blue light and protonomaly.
me and some people complain about the "Flashlight in the Eyes" effect, after which photosensitivity appears, it is also difficult to read text on some screens, it is difficult to focus, nausea appears, we think it is due to pixel shaking (dithering).
Those apps are useless. Most devices, especially Samsung, flicker even at 100% brightness. This, I suppose, is done to reduce heat and increase battery efficiency.
Vividblu99 I didn't use my phone as much as I do now.
I really doubt it is overuse. You can not believe, how many hours back to back I would spend playing games on my Galaxy Note 5. It would get to the point where one of my eyes hurt so bad that I would have to tie it up with something and play with one eye open. But that was only after days and days of none stop playing.
Last night, though, I used my Galaxy Note 5 for barely 15 minutes. I could not sleep all night from massive eyestrain and headache till 7 am. It's been nearly a week now, and the eye and neck strain and headache have still not fully healed.
I think it's more the case of companies thinking, "Well, barely anyone is getting eyestrain from these techs, why not push it further? Why not reduce PWM frequency to get an increase in battery efficiency, and why not just slam a shitty 6bit panel into a phone and make it look as good with dithering and then sell it at the same price as a 10bit panel?"
Vividblu99 Keep in mind, the vast majority of manufacturers all use displays that are produced and designed by the same companies, in the same factories, and are slightly tweaked in terms of specs & display optimization.
This unfortunately is true, though. And sadly Samsung has most of the screen building market, and they are probably the biggest PWM/Dithering abusers.
We really need to get our voices out or the situation will just get worse and worse. Yesterday I looked carefully at my Galaxy Grand 2 and I feel I am seeing 2 brighter spots on the screen. I suppose the screen is degrading. If something happens to this phone or if it breaks, I am literally phoneless lol
bz12 I've tried OnePlus 9 (pwm, but other users here have said it didn't bother them), Poco X4 GT, OnePlus Nord CE 2 Lite, iPhone 11 and iPhone 8 Plus (iOS 16) in the past couple months and none of them resonate well with me. I'm still without a comfortable device to use.
Oh boy, this is so sad! Are you sure The Poco X4 GT strained you!!?? Notebook check has actual video footage on YouTube showing that this device does not dither at all and the PWM frequency is crazy high! 50k! That's like 20x most devices that run at 240Hz!! What could possibly be the source of strain here !!?
This phone was my last hope :"(