I found a Linux distro that fixes my eyestrain with the default setup!!
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reaganry That's unfortunate to hear. Did you find kernel 4.15 easier on the eyes?
orangepeel yes it seems usable, better than manjaro, but i cant test streaming video with bad internet
simplex Can you explain a bit more…? Which OS affected, why they affected?
Starting with Windows 10 (actually it may have also been in Windows 8, I never used 8 so I never looked into it) DirectX 12 was "built in" to the OS. DirectX 12 is what enables all those pretty Windows effects that Microsoft loves but it also modifies the display in a way that triggers out symptoms (colors, dithering, etc). It basically introduces a new "layer" in between your video card and your monitor. Before this your video card could draw frames directly to the screen without anything in the middle, Aero inserted itself in the middle but that could be disable in Windows 7, but in Windows 10 and up it is a part of the desktop window manager and cannot be disabled, at least without severely compromising the functionality of windows. There are ways to overwrite system files using a Window 10 boot disk to access a Windows 10 install that llows you to modify system files but the resulting desktop environment is not very useable, you get random black windows popping up all over the place.
Also what os do you run on your main personal machine?
windows 7, pre-KB2670838 update (which adds the Windows 10 video architecture to Windows 7)
orangepeel ensete What Linux kernel are you using? I use Ubuntu 18.04 with Linux kernel 4.15.0-x and I have no eyestrain. Ubuntu 18.04 has two different kernels -- 4.15 and 5.4. I don't use kernel 5.4 because this kernel gives me eyestrain and headaches.
I used Ubuntu 18.04 with kernel 4.15.0-x for years. Then last year I reinstalled Ubuntu 18.04, but the display became very harsh and gave me a headache. Then I noticed that it had kernel 5.4 and not kernel 4.15. So I installed kernel 4.15, booted into GRUB, and selected kernel 4.15 and the eyestrain disappeared and the screen was easy on the eyes! Kernel 5.4 turned my good laptop (ideapad 110) into a bad laptop.
I'm no Linux expert, but I set up a new Lubuntu 18.04 in a VM and it wasn't as pleasant on the eyes as RDP'ing onto my Mini PC I have Lubunutu installed on. I checked the kernel version's and they are 5.4 on both. I downgraded the VM to 4.15, didn't see that much of a difference.
I am assuming now that xrdp offers a better display than the VM display. More testing to come.
ensete It basically introduces a new "layer" in between your video card and your monitor
you know, you very close to the truth.
Coz I found some OPPO smartphone researches, where they in software DC-dimming emulation, add grey overlay to made screen dark, but method is same - dithering! And what we all know, its chaotic pixel movement
My findigs talks, win10 got something in win10 2004 and later, when WDDM2.7 starts. Perhabs they started to use same interface dithering method as u describe… here is video what I talking about: https://filetransfer.io/data-package/iwnh2gOL
simplex I think the DC like dimming definitely is doing something weird like that because for example on my 13T when I enter DC dimming brightness levels I feel awful so I wonder if Xiaomi is using it too. For example brilliant labs "frame" smart glasses supposedly use FRC/dither as a brightness control so I'm sure alot of other people also are using it too on their devices. Btw I got brilliant labs to make a toggle to disable that, I may try them (off topic sorry)
jordan on my 13T
OPPO's research was in 2019, they publish this method after few attemps -> https://www.gizchina.com/2019/04/03/oppo-announces-dc-like-dimming-feature-for-coloros/
Finally, you use 13T without DC-dimming option? Have you measure it with OPPLE4?
I am afraid if modern laptop screens also use this method of dimming (look at their spec - DC dimming, DC current dimming control)
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simplex yeah but I thought leds are either on or off. If adjusting voltage I thought they become super unstable flickering ?
Btw I came across this https://patents.google.com/patent/US20020147861A1/en
simplex also isnt this a form of dithering ?
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2016/04/smartphone-screens-are-now-smarter-under-sun-snapdragon-display-tech
Donux amdgpu.dither is not a real module parameter:
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v6.8/gpu/amdgpu/module-parameters.html
This is a chatgpt hallucination. There must be something else about your setup which helps alleviate your symptoms.
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ensete On my Ideapad the difference between 4.15 and 5.4 is great. But I'm not surprised that my suggestion didn't work for you because I couldn't see any difference between kernels on my Thinkpad when I was trying out different kernels a few years ago.
Yes, let me know the results of your testing.
Is RDPing into your Lubuntu mini PC comfortable? What brand/model is your mini PC?
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I tried your suggestion on my bad laptop, a Thinkpad T440 with an Intel iGPU and Ubuntu 20.04. I can confirm there's a significant difference in the image when compositing is turned off on Xfce. The image becomes more stable. But the T440 still gives me a very bad feeling that comes on quickly, so the more still image hasn't helped. I haven't tested this on my T440P (Intel iGPU) that is usable with Windows 10 or my good Ideapad (AMD APU) that is good with Ubuntu 18.04.
I'm wondering whether we should be trying to test more laptops and PCs that have AMD APUs.
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orangepeel Have you tried the intel_reg command to disable dithering on Linux? I just did it recently on a live USB of Ubuntu on a T480 and it both created very visible banding and seemed to significantly improve the display (aside from the hardware PWM still being there)
The Ubuntu I tried was a 2019 era version I still had on a USB, so newer versions may have other issues. But this 2019 version of Ubuntu seems to feel close to Win10 1809 — the safe Windows version for the T480 — which is a really good sign
sudo intel_reg write 70030 0x40
You might need to run sudo apt install intel-gpu-tools first
BTW, I am so grateful this command exists today, for years I thought ditherig.exe would not be easy to "port" to Linux but all it takes is this command, and a script to re-run it on resume from sleep and monitor reconnect events
Also since you have a ThinkPad, you should definitely consider trying different LCDs via panel swapping, as sometimes even if the software is resolved there can still be an issue with the panel
My T480 was terrible on both Win10 22H2 and Win11 23H2, these OS versions had unique software and rendering-related issues such as a really intense pseudo-3D effect to everything and a general "my depth perception and ability to determine relative proportion and scale is REALLY being messed with" feeling — very similar to MacBooks
However, after downgrading to a Win10 1809 clean install, these kinds of issues noticeably "stopped" in an obvious way. Now I have a clean image that looks "correct", it doesn't feel "MacBook bad" at all anymore, but it's still straining my eyes a lot if I use it for too long
Fortunately, now I can easily tell that the "remaining" strain on 1809 is very likely coming from specifically the panel's really bad and detectable hardware PWM, that still exists even after the software fixes LOL
It was OS related, because driver issues were already ruled out as a possible cause because I tested all 3 Windows versions with identical 2017-era graphics drivers. Even with the same drivers, 1809 was the only Windows version that did not cause those software issues.
It was not placebo because:
I have a folder of photos I tested on each OS that I already know "look weird on software that messes with my depth perception", and my brain processed the content and composition of those photos completely differently on the "modern" Windows versions vs. 1809.
For example, one photo I test is a building captured at a slightly exaggerated camera angle, with a tree in the foreground that is at the very edge, i.e. the tree is half out of frame and you can only see the leaves.
In real life, the tree is entirely in front of the building, but the perspective makes it look like some leaves are above the top of the building and others below.
On 22H2, it looked like it was "the leaves at the top look like they're coming from a separate extremely huge tree that is unnaturally placed behind the building, the leaves at the bottom look like they're hovering over the building, I feel very strange pain and disorientation when I try to look 'directly at' the unnaturally large leaves at the top, and I can't simultaneously focus on the top leaves and the bottom leaves at the same time" (incorrect)
On 1809, it looked like "all leaves come from a single tree I can intuitively tell should be in front of the building, with no forcefully implied 3D depth, the proportions all look fine and nothing appears too large, and it no longer causes any pain to focus my eyes on any of the leaves" (correct)
I compared the photo on each Win10 version to my safe 2012 laptop Win8.1 setup, which I know looks "correct" and appears similar to 1809. It was easy to tell that the photo "finally looked like it should" after downgrading to 1809, as I was comparing it side by side to the safe setup the whole time.
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I haven't tried the intel_reg command yet. I think disabling the spatial dithering won't help much.
Yes, trying a different LCD panel might work, but I've read that some people couldn't fix their symptoms even after trying several panels, so that deters me.
Yeah, I've considered going back to Win10 1809 or earlier too because 22H2 which I'm using now is much less comfortable than those earlier versions. I used to use a much earlier version (maybe 1809) and then I did a clean install from the ISO downloaded from the Microsoft website and it was much harsher to look at, but by that stage the Microsoft website didn't have an older version of Windows 10 for me to download. It's a shame that 22H2 is so disorientating for you on your T480. I'm not getting disorientated like you when using my T440P, but it's definitely quite harsh. Do you know where older versions of Windows 10 can be downloaded that are genuine?
Now that you mention the 3D effect, I've experienced something like this when my good laptop was connected to my TV with 1980x1080 resolution. It results in a big headache for me. So I use the 1360x768 resolution instead which allows me to watch films for hours and hours with no symptoms.