• OSLinux

  • Linux - investigating eye strain problem

old PC's have only monitor's FRC issue, when new PC's have : 1) motherboard dithering 2) windows/linux/macOS dithering 3) monitor's t-pwm dithering.... signal got too many noise after 3 layers of dithering, results headache when eye tries to focus looking in chaotic pixel movement

    simplex this is exactly what I thought! I even wondered if the BIOS has anything to do with it. It’s interesting you brought up any BIOS from 2022 and newer. I seem to be fine with a computer I built in 2022 with Windows 10 but windows 11 and every Linux version I’ve tried has given me issues. The last thing I’m going to try is different AMD cards with my Linux distro to see if that does anything. I saw that System76 uses an open source BIOS called CoreBoot which comes pre installed with Pop OS if you buy any of their laptops, which I believe are just Clevo laptops. I haven’t tried any System76 machines but I’ve definitely tried PopOS on different machines and had the same issues with headaches and inability to focus on text after just a couple of hours. Do you think there could be some value in exploring those specific combinations of System76 machines with Coreboot and PopOS?

        simplex old PC's have only monitor's FRC issue

        yup, plus on e.g. Windows XP/Vista/7 and PowerPC-era OS X, you actually had an easily accessible option for true 6-bit "thousands of colors" mode — meaning it used to be possible to generate a signal that was able to avoid activating FRC on some older monitors entirely.

        On the Windows side the "thousands of colors" option was removed with Windows 8. Since then, any old CCFL that used to only activate FRC dithering only when receiving an 8-bit signal is now essentially forced to apply FRC at all times.

        If I think all the way back to the Windows XP I'm almost certain that I used to have the thousands of colors mode selected in display properties. I actually remember having some sort of vague preference for it (instead of using millions of colors) even back then.

        I still own the same Windows XP era monitor and of course, nowadays… I can see it apply its own internal "checkerboard-style" FRC whenever its fed a modern 8-bit DVI signal even if connected to a GPU that doesn't dither.

            5 months later

            I'm late to the party, but I've suffered from eye strain/pain for several months. Tried different distros and different laptops with Intel and NVIDIA GPUs. No matter what settings I tried I could never fix my issue. So, I kept going back to Windows/WSL2.
            Now, I'd like to report that my eye strain is finally gone! My solution was to buy a QD-OLED monitor (specifically, the HP Omen Transcend.) But I assume any other QD-OLED monitor should work.
            On this new monitor, everything looks crystal clear! No matter which laptop or Graphics card I use. Even my Raspberry Pi 400 looks clear.
            It did take a few days for my eyes to adjust to the new monitor, but it was worth it!
            While I was struggling with this, besides trying software/hardware configurations, I also had my eyes checked.
            Now, I'm running Ubuntu 24.04 with the default setup, except I installed fonts-ubuntu-classic, nvidia-driver-550 (although the nouveau driver was working fine as well.) My laptop does not have a DiplayPort, so I'm using USB-C (But HDMI also works fine)
            In any case, I thought I'd share this hoping that it helps someone else!

              jaymdev Hi. Can you explain what symptoms did you have? Burning eyes? Red eyes? Or something else? What did you mean by "it did take a few days for my eyes to adjust…"?

                I had burning eyes and eye pain (mostly on my left eye) I also had headaches concentrated around the left eye.

                These symptoms always happened while using Linux, but not windows 10/11 on the same exact hardware.

                I was using LED IPS monitors (BenQ GW2485TC) for a couple of years. I kept dual booting Linux (Ubuntu, Mint, Pop OS!, Fedora, Arch, Manjaro). Arch/XFCE worked best out of all distros, but still not as good as Windows.

                The first couple of days with the new qd-oled monitor I still had the same mild symptoms, to the point where I thought it wouldn’t work for me and I was going to have to return it. But the following day, the symptoms were gone and I can use it for extended sessions comfortably. I’ve only had it for about a week now though, and I’m hoping the symptoms won’t return.

                I switched from LED IPS FHD to QD-OLED UHD. I’m now wondering if a good quality IPS (maybe UHD or 4K) may also solve this problem.

                  jaymdev

                  Your new monitor may have a true 10-bit panel. According to the Linux kernel code, some graphics cards have limit at 10-bit, and at this limit, dithering is not used. However, this may not apply to your situation, as it all depends on the driver and the model of the graphics card.

                    a month later

                    jaymdev do you still use this screen without any eyestrain?

                    If so, could you please check the frequency PWM on this monitor?

                      2 months later

                      twomee can you tell which exact kernel version is still ok for you?

                      Did you find any updates on the topic?

                      I'm rolling through the kernel changelogs atm, but its pretty hard to find anything related - so far nothing.

                      Thank you in advance!

                        I am using Linux Mint Cinnamon 22.1 with the default 6.8 kernel and a custom 6.10 kernel. The issues only occur on some 6bit+FRC displays, but when using a true 8-bit display, the image does not strain the eyes even after 10+ hours of use per day.

                        However, I only have access to an Arc A770, UHD 630, and UHD Xe. I do not have any Nvidia or AMD graphics cards.

                        dev