Hey everyone, I wanted to share my experience with screen-related brain fog and eyestrain, as I know a lot of people deal with this. until recently, I was struggling with severe eyestrain, which was somewhat manageable until brain fog and dizziness started to kick in. The brain fog hit hard and was completely debilitating. After trying a bunch of things, I suspected that LED lighting or blue light might be part of the issue, so I started experimenting with external monitors. I recently switched over to a Dell U2410f monitor, which uses CCFL backlighting instead of the more common LED, and connected it via a USB-C to HDMI cable from a M3 air . I also got myself a pair of affordable blue light blocking glasses to see if that would help alongside F.lux, Stillcolor and staying further away from the screen. The results? A significant improvement! My symptoms have reduced by about 80%. The brain fog and eyestrain aren’t completely gone, but they’re way more manageable now. I suspect that part of the lingering discomfort might be due to neuroplasticity and my brain adjusting after long-term exposure to bad screens. but, I am not sure of this, and am trying to pinpoint the last 20 percent of symptoms in hopes of having a workstation where I can be deeply focused, and right now that is just beyond reach because of the remaining symptoms. could I still be suffering from PWM or some other form of flickering? I don't believe it could be the blue light anymore because the glasses cut out 99.9 percent of it so that must mean that symptoms are coming from elsewhere. I have Stillcolor on so this display should be dithering-free and low brightness seems to be better for me and that would not be the case if it were PWM. am I missing something? symptoms also improve the further away I am from the screen so that also re-affirms my suspicions that it could be something to do with light, (although moving further away could change a lot of things) current symptoms is dizziness mainly with slight eye pressure, it is not extreme but it is very bothersome. Has anyone else had similar experiences ? Would love to hear if anyone else found a fix for that last 20% of symptoms! all replies greatly appreciated. this is a follow-up post from my original about my problem.

evthelegend macOS doesn't generate "clean" display output even with Stillcolor, there is a lot of weird color management stuff and strange anomalies to the output that isn't even fully figured out by us here yet (for one, Macs are infamously known to send YCbCr output to most monitors — something that is more associated with televisions instead of RGB by default — which makes text blurrier. But even fixing that with a workaround doesn't fully solve the "strange" output.) A better bet is to connect an older Windows laptop to the monitor. If you still need to use Mac apps, you can use an app like NoMachine or RealVNC Viewer in order to connect to your Mac from that PC. In addition, the monitor is likely still doing its own FRC dithering (AKA, moving grainy static), as the monitor is probably 6-bit but is being sent an 8-bit signal. The only known way to get around that one is to use an even older Windows laptop that is running Windows 7 or earlier (which supports selecting "16-bit" output). Or, running Linux on a PC laptop and then forcing "DefaultDepth 16" or "DefaultDepth 15" in an Xorg config file. (However Linux is also known to have its own set of display issues, it depends on the hardware.) Finally, compared to standard blue blocking glasses, I find that these "pure red" ones work wayyyy more effectively for me, they even help me "semi-tolerate" some screens I otherwise couldn't read at all! And when they're used with a screen setup that's already "pretty good", it makes it even better, so whenever I don't need color I always use them! (the ones I linked are the exact ones I use daily. All the other colors offered on the page didn't do anything for me, but there's something really unique about the "pure red" variant) Finally, in my case I actually did find my fix for that "last 20%", it's that one specific old Windows 8 laptop that I've talked about a ton of times on this forum. Literally I have found NO other screen, including other old devices, that feels like that one laptop yet. There is something different about it that somehow makes it perfect for me. If you want me to give a run down of my exact laptop + setup I can! (I actually bought a second one of my exact "perfect" laptop to verify if I can re-create the same setup consistently lol. It's arriving in a few days)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs The u2410f I believe is 8+2frc

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs what was the laptop that you used? I want to try something other than Mac but I don't have anything but that so ill need to order something soon.

evthelegend It's the Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13 (first generation) from 2012, 8GB RAM, Core i7-3537U with Intel HD Graphics 4000. I am running a ~2019 build of Windows 8.1. Windows 10 might work too but I have a perfect setup on 8.1. It can be found used for about $100-150. This screen inside this laptop is a 13-inch IPS at 1600x900 (LG Display, LCD panel ID LP133WD2-SLB1). It's essentially "legendary" because IPS panels are pretty much never made in this resolution, usually 1600x900 screens are TN — except for this specific one and 2 revisions of it lol. To me, the size of the UI at this resolution is perfect. (Note: the Panelook specs oddly say that the panel is matte, but it's actually glossy. Even if you prefer matte this shouldn't affect your decision because IMO this screen is so good regardless) The rarity of this screen is also great because to my research, this is one of the few cases where a laptop doesn't have the "screen supplier lottery", so as far as I know when you buy this laptop it should have the same panel as mine! (The other two revisions were made for Fujitsu/NEC laptops respectively, so unless someone replaced the screen, the exact revision should also be the same!) Currently, it's the ONLY (non E-ink) device/panel that TRULY "crosses the threshold 🌀" and solves that final 20% for me. Aside from the resolution, the screen specs appear to be pretty standard for the time (shockingly it has a WLED backlight and not CCFL but remains amazing) but there's something that sets it apart from every other IPS, it's totally a mystery. My only theory is that it lacks most or possibly all "post-processing"/artificial contrast "enhancement" that would usually be done by the panel etc. Dithering flicker can be eliminated with kawamoto's dithering settings (ditherig.exe). There is a tiny bit of backlight flicker (it appears more like subtle incandescent flicker on camera instead of intense strobe-like flicker) but surprisingly it doesn't affect my reading/productivity/eyestrain. Usually I do have issues with flicker (I feel super drained under any generic flickering LED lightbulb) but somehow, not here! Your sensitivities sound really similar to mine so I'm pretty optimistic this screen might also work for you. It's also one of the only devices that somehow energizes me when I look at it instead of draining me (I don't know why. The only other two devices that achieve this for me are the backlit version of Game Boy SP and the 2004 Nintendo DS which also have "perfect" screens IMO). The Yoga 13 does this consistently enough that I quite literally look at it to recover from bad screens LOL. It actually restores my vision back to normal faster than just resting. Again, no idea how but it just works. If you get one, I can walk you through exactly how I configured mine to get best possible display output + really solid remote connection setup to "use Mac apps through its screen" (which also is great for working around the limited performance of the old hardware by off-loading the computing to a modern device!) Finally, as I mentioned before I'm getting a second one delivered to me to verify if I really can recreate the same exact feeling on another unit! It will arrive in 2 days

Thanks for the detailed breakdown! I’m sold—I’m going to get one and give it a try! I’ll definitely hit you up for the configuration tips once I get it. Also excited to hear how your second unit compares!

evthelegend awesome! make sure to get the Core i7 version of that laptop (since i have no idea if there are any differences in the Core i3/i5 versions) for reference, here's what it looks like to ensure you're getting the first generation model (and not the Yoga 2, etc.) https://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Lenovo-IdeaPad-Yoga-13-Ultrabook.84080.0.html

thx, imma try linux on my monitor because it seems like you can mess around with the screen processing so maybe that could be a solution

evthelegend fyi for the specific laptop I am recommending, that "perfect" setup I achieved on its internal LCD only works with windows (I tried Linux on that laptop and there's something weird/flickery about the output that I don't get in windows) but yeah for your external monitor trying different software and seeing what works makes sense!

good to know, currently working on making a setup with no dithering,pwm,ccfl, low blue light and any other post processing done to a screen, if I eliminate every known trigger I should in theory have a screen that I can use for hours on end. my current monitor still has pwn so I will be looking for a monitor without it while still being ccfl and running linux. also I ordered a hp omen 27q monitor <a href="https://www.amazon.com/HP-OMEN-Gaming-Monitor-Display/dp/B0C171KBM3/ref=sr_1_1?crid=UV62E2QUAB05&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.G__9NXfQainQw06UnsT0sVWVNByMdxbIJ2k1fV2TmSv_8NG2ULcERHL_dH9wvUiYR4ZMFAMdFqbBc6XtXc2bqM0PXBCQeEmjFIrQ_xbe_09aKp-5rsTZUYvqOHo1GhxpYarqwT_HC12L0Oej_3HHgdX_6n9KFg8rfUymHS7AWoy4kWwV6Ou84RJAvybbGx5cpxgZxDIg8RmdkZrYqvmm3VzoNrycrXfVpi650Tw0e68HfIppozriCAVrRk7vfwtxHWySqV9HB6cbtp_8su-3GrgDTYTIME79yb049agI-fg.bgm29CiYr0mHwMc3vP7xgW0_wqp82oP9C3Flq1HbCf8&dib_tag=se&keywords=hp+omen+27q&qid=1728317690&s=electronics&sprefix=hp+omen+27q%2Celectronics%2C202&sr=1-1" rel="ugc noopener nofollow" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/HP-OMEN-Gaming-Monitor-Display/dp/B0C171KBM3/ref=sr_1_1?crid=UV62E2QUAB05&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.G__9NXfQainQw06UnsT0sVWVNByMdxbIJ2k1fV2TmSv_8NG2ULcERHL_dH9wvUiYR4ZMFAMdFqbBc6XtXc2bqM0PXBCQeEmjFIrQ_xbe_09aKp-5rsTZUYvqOHo1GhxpYarqwT_HC12L0Oej_3HHgdX_6n9KFg8rfUymHS7AWoy4kWwV6Ou84RJAvybbGx5cpxgZxDIg8RmdkZrYqvmm3VzoNrycrXfVpi650Tw0e68HfIppozriCAVrRk7vfwtxHWySqV9HB6cbtp_8su-3GrgDTYTIME79yb049agI-fg.bgm29CiYr0mHwMc3vP7xgW0_wqp82oP9C3Flq1HbCf8&dib_tag=se&keywords=hp+omen+27q&qid=1728317690&s=electronics&sprefix=hp+omen+27q%2Celectronics%2C202&sr=1-1 basically a perfect monitor besides the LED (if I have severe symptoms again it will confirm that LED is infact a major problem for me as I am not sure yet) longterm use of my current monitor gives me the same symptoms as before, only difference is it happens more gradually so that confirms ccfl is not a fix, but could be part of one.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs your laptop is LED im sure because its 2012, so I wouldn't be surprised if led is not the culprit

screen-Induced Brain Fog & Eyestrain – CCFL + Blue Light Glasses Seem to Help

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

evthelegend really promising first impressions so far. color shifts and viewing angles respond the same way, so it's definitely the correct panel.

of course, every LCD (even when comparing the same model) has slight differences, and I need to try a bunch of different types of work before I actually give a real verdict or and know whether comfort is same/worse/better than my "trusted" one.

one thing i can say though, this is the nicest I've seen Windows 10 21H2 yet…

this is the first time I've ever seen a "modern" OS version running natively on a laptop without "immediately feeling like something is wrong"!!

(however, I don't know how my original Yoga 13 would compare if it was running 21H2, because I don't want to update it from my perfect 8.1 setup LOL.)

only time will tell if it stays this way.

only tweaks so far are ditherig.exe + disable_dpst.bat + disable Calibration Loader service

BTW, outside of screen comfort -- even though this laptop is from 11 years ago it's actually running very smoothly on Win10, webpages and apps are loading fast. -- pleasantly surprised

photon78s

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

I have been using a brand new IdeaPad 5 2-in-1 with less strain that expected for the past month using the internal FHD IPS display (running stock linux mint 22 and amd 780m igpu). Perhaps the dim display and lack of wide color gamut support contributes positively.

https://www.xda-developers.com/lenovo-ideapad-5-2-in-1-14-inch-amd-review/

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

update 1

second Yoga13 has the "same" LP133WD2-SLB1 panel but there are differences

i think it's a different revision of the laptop

even though my original one is perfect… this second one is not good

differences

still better than modern laptops, text is readable and not fuzzy — but i'm definitely getting noticeable eyestrain here + constant annoying "scratchy" feeling in eyes… (compared to my original Yoga13 where i get basically NO strain at ALL no matter where I look on the screen)

i notice a slight "oversharpening", "extra shadows", "contrast enhanced" look to the image… that simply isn't there on my original one, comparing side-by-side…

colors are similar but slightly off. blue is more saturated, green is more "olive". white looks same at first glance, but ever so slightly more orange on this "worse" one (not a yellow tint though)

i can reduce strain with really strong color adjustments — but that's a far cry from mine where i don't need to tweak ANY colors…… on my original, i can literally just stare at the pure display at near-default settings and it's so comfy (in fact, my original was still pretty nice even before i disabled temporal dithering on it)

(It feels different even in the BIOS. Also tried Windows 8.1 with same exact installation USB and drivers/settings, also tried Basic Display. I'm pretty sure the difference is NOT dithering or flicker-related. PWM is the same on both. Both have no color profile.)

not terrible, one of the better devices I've tested this year. but it's nowhere near the "legendary" status of my own Yoga 13.

i have that discomfort constantly lurking in the background while i'm using it, and the amount changes depending on the image like other modern devices — compared to my original, where it's absolute relaxation no matter what's onscreen

it doesn't solve that "last 20% of strain" like mine does. when i put them side by side, immediately relieved when i look back at mine…

it's a different revision?

despite having the same BIOS version, same LCD panel ID, similar manufacturing date, and identical appearance, there are some really odd differences I've spotted

My Yoga13 (incredible, essentially zero strain)

Model Name in BIOS is just "Yoga 13"
System Model "Mocca 2.0"
System SKU "LENOVO_BI_IDEAPAD66" (weirdly literally only 4 results for this online)
i7-3537U
…can't compare bottom sticker since it's too washed out on mine

Second Yoga13 (readable but definitely get strained, not recommendable)

Model Name in BIOS is "Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13"
System Model "20175"
System SKU "LENOVO_MT_20175"
"Press F2 for Setup" font is different(!), despite same BIOS version, will post pics soon
i7-3517U
keyboard has way more travel (this one's probably not connected to revision though, just keyboard lottery)

what's really odd is that every used listing i've seen that posts specs, they line up with the second one, i can't find a single listing yet that says "just Yoga 13" in BIOS like mine does

will return this one. but since i need a "backup laptop" in case mine breaks, i will still be searching!

…of course, my original one is still as perfect as it's always been

@evthelegend @jordan

TLDR:

i still reccomend trying a Yoga13 because my original one remains great — but definitely check with the seller that it is Model "Mocca 2.0" in System Information or just "Yoga 13" in BIOS (and potentially avoid "Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13" shown in BIOS unless it's the only one you can find)

however this seems way more difficult than expected, given how obscure my original one's SKU is

also make sure you can return it

BTW let me know if there's any images you want me to take a close up macro comparison of before I return this

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

photon78s Perhaps the dim display and lack of wide color gamut support contributes positively.

Not sure about this — because that basic stock Innolux panel in my T480, it was 45% sRGB 220 nit — but even after some tweaks made it """tolerable""", in the end it was still super uncomfortable and giving me immediate strain/headaches. Also had a lot of weird panel-level oversharpening stuff going on

Meanwhile, my original Yoga 13 panel is also 45% sRGB, a similarly low contrast ratio, but is great

So just a low color gamut alone doesn't make a panel safe

(I still generally prefer low color gamut though, since 100% sRGB or higher has its own set of issues for me like way too bright reds)

karthi3219

Similar to you, CCFL + Blue light blocking glass is helping me 90%. My setup is Mac M1 pro + Dell U2410 + Cheap blue light blocking glass.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

oddly enough, the only few results I can find for "Mocca 2.0" that aren't auto-generated benchmark/driver pages are from China/Japan (except for one result from a dev's personal site)

one of them translates to "Do you know what machine mocca2.0 is? I can't find it on the official website. […] The model detected is wrong, that is, BiOS is incorrect. Try to re-flash it."

definitely something unique with my (original, strain-free) Yoga13 since it has the "Mocca 2.0" name

mine is a US keyboard layout model, but it was sent in for repair once about 10 years ago, i feel like that might relate to the name/SKU difference…

JTL

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs "Press F2 for Setup" font is different(!), despite same BIOS version, will post pics soon

Could potentially dump the BIOS flash (might need external hardware) and differentiate them.

evthelegend

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

It definitely sounds like the second Yoga 13 is from a different revision, even though it shares the same panel ID, BIOS version, and other specs.

That being said, it’s quite possible that your comfort with the original Yoga 13 screen is partly due to having used it from the start, leading to a form of neural adaptation or "immunity" to its display characteristics. There’s plenty of anecdotal evidence across forums where people mention that the only screen they can comfortably use is an older model they’ve grown accustomed to. This suggests there could be some level of neuroplasticity involved, where the brain adjusts to specific visual stimuli over time.

evthelegend

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

also, I switched from my dell ccfl for a HP omen 27Q and symptoms have yet again improved, the hp omen is a true 8 bit probably reducing the affects of dithering compared to the dell with I think was 8+ 2frc although I don't understand the bit thing much so correct me if im wrong but also it is PWM free so the only stimuli that I changed was the "flicker" (pwm,dithering) leading me to believe that this could be a bigger part of the issue than the backlight like I had originally thought as the HP is LED. I need to test a true 8 bit ccfl pwm free monitor but these pre 2010 monitors are absolutely awful :/ also I am still running the m3 air with it and I know its the biggest culprit when it comes to display processing stuff so I am looking for ways to disable it ( currently just have stillcolor and flux) but I don't know what else I can do with the OS being awfully restrictive. the only reason I have not thrown away the Mac is because this monitor I am using makes it so much more usable although it is far from suited for long term use and I believe the issue is probably apples screen processing coupled with backlight problems.

macsforme

JTL Could potentially dump the BIOS flash (might need external hardware) and differentiate them.

Not only that, but it would be interesting to flash the ROM of the “good” machine to the “bad” machine of the same model, to see if this makes the visual appearance the same.

Sometimes you can dump the full ROM using flashrom (programmer “internal”) in Linux, but to flash the ROM you will likely need an external programmer like a CH341A and a suitable clip or connector. As long as you are careful to back up your old ROM first, you should have no trouble reverting it to the original when you are done testing.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

evthelegend

nope.

i have other old devices that i've owned for a while, have used for a while (for example, late 2008 macbook pro 15" that i "used" pretty frequently between 2012-2017 -- tolerable but not a "safe" screen), but have always been "kinda unproductive" on compared to other hardware & consistently had more brain fog on & have leaned towards using other devices instead

the only difference is that before i knew i was screen-sensitive, i always jumped to other factors first when in reality it was the exact same thing i deal with today

i thought i was less productive on MBP 2008 because "it was too heavy on my lap and that makes me tired" (Actually, it was generally hard to read and whatever the screen is doing gives me fatigue, even if it's on a table. If I compare the number of things i actually built/wrote/learned/read on it to my OG Yoga13, which I was also using in the same era, it's way less)
i ended up always using an old 2014 ASUS netbook in Linux "console-only" mode to write all my english assignments in high school, instead of my at-the-time current 2016 MacBook Pro, because "i thought it had less distractions" (Actually, the screen is SO much better to read long documents on, console mode is what reduces strain the most since it's monochrome, and remains good for writing to this day -- although now I have better options. One time I tried to write on Mac instead, and I vividly remember the text shimmering and the brain fog)
i never completed a video game on my 2015 GPD XD android handheld because "i thought it had too much input lag" (Actually, input lag was totally fine in retrospect, but it was one of the first screens that was bad enough where I actually noticed the "false 3D effect" even back then which made games difficult-to-play because my vision keeps going in and out of focus, and it's still uncomfortable now)

Motorola Atrix Laptop Dock (11-inch portable TN monitor) that i've technically owned since 2013, but have literally only used once or twice so i basically don't have any "tolerance". i finally remembered it again last month and seriously tested it for the first time -- image was already better than modern screens, but still was getting some strain.
BUT THEN… i used the Laptop Dock with a basic Linux console, and out of nowhere, it suddenly felt even better for writing than the 2014 netbook that i'm "used to". i realized that it was doing something messed up whenever actual "shades of colors" are involved, but pure black/white/red/green/blue was fine.
finally, i had the idea to make the Windows desktop "pure green and black" too (i.e. not even grayscale) with NegativeScreen + High Contrast and BOOM… as long as that limitation is in place, i've actually been productive writing on it for a week now because that seemingly works around it's display controller's post-processing. (btw the LCD controller is Realtek RTD2482D)
nothing "imaginary" here, doing this literally killed it's oversharpening and "contrast enhancement" and i can write better on it than my 2014 netbook now, even though this is basically my first time using it.

(this method is actually unique to the Laptop Dock. the same strategy doesn't fix my other strainy screens…)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

update 2

cc @photon78s

The LP133WD2-SPB1 panel just arrived which I'm now trying in my ThinkPad T480. According to Panelook it's supposed to have the exact same specs as the Yoga 13's LP133WD2-SLB1 but with an eDP cable instead of LVDS.

This is literally the only 1600x900 IPS that connects to modern laptops.

yes, T480 is 14" but this is 13"…I just have it taped to the lid LOL. if it's good, I'll exchange the T480 for a 13-inch like L380 or X390 (as long as the other laptop renders the same way, ofc)

We now know there's panel variation in the SLB1, since the second Yoga13 is strainy. So just same specs doesn't necessarily mean good.

But…

First impressions: this is already doing a better job at emulating my Yoga13, than an actual 2nd Yoga13 😂

Of course, I can't say "it's good" or anything yet, but I'm testing some images that caused strain on the "new" Yoga13 and they feel way closer to my original one here -- particularly in the way my eyes focus.

What's even more -- I wasn't even expecting this at all -- but apparently the LCD decides the font for "To interrupt normal startup, press Enter" on the BIOS since it changed. This is notable because it's literally rendering the same font as my original Yoga13 👀👀 and not the weird one the second has.

Given the font, and that this SPB1 is in a "modern" laptop with UHD 620 and it's already way better than the "second" SLB1, this possibly means that the revisional difference was in the SLB1 panel itself? (arguably, only have Basic Display Driver enabled for now, but I also tried Basic Display on the "new" Yoga13 too and it didn't solve things, so I'm surprised that this is already way more comfortable than that)

It's also way better than the terrible Innolux that came with the T480, and I can tell it's a significant step up from the two LP140WF3-SPD1 that I tried recently (which were kinda more tolerable than Innolux, but still too much strain/blurriness for me and had a weird "mesh" pattern over the screen)

Note: Panelook says both SPB1 and the SLB1 are matte. Yoga13 is totally glossy, so I'm starting to think that the way it's used there is actually still a matte panel underneath, but with a glossy layer on top for the touch digitizer. (Yet another thing that makes Yoga13 unique, but definitely not "what makes it good" since the second revision of Yoga13 is strainy despite this.)

Currently, haven't pulled off the "protective covering" tab on SPB1, which adds some gloss, but I'm starting to think it truly is matte underneath since I see less reflections than on my Yoga13. I'm actually keeping the covering on for now since I'm getting a really good first impression. Not sure if the protector's gloss plays into this, but because I'm already liking what I'm seeing I don't want to touch it.

Will let y'all know how this goes.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

update 2: LP133WD2-SPB1 (temporarily attached to ThinkPad T480) is definitely the best new screen i've tried so far

it seems to feel very similar to my original Yoga13. colors are identical

(unlike that very strainy second Yoga13 that had noticeably off-feeling colors and harsh orange-ish white backgrounds and felt like a totally different revision despite having same panel ID)

text is extremely easy to read and everything looks SO crisp in a good way i.e. actually physically sharp -- not in a "modern device using an oversharpening filter on a blurry image" way

also, photos with fisheye lens do NOT seem to "bulge out of the screen (and then cause immediate strain due to that)", which is super unique and very promising because all other PC screens I've tested -- except for my original Mocca 2.0 Yoga13 -- have had this problem in some way, even old CCFL TN monitors

so clarity and readability is impressive, but will keep testing until i post any verdict about whether it is "good/strain-free/recommendable" or if it still has strain

btw the SPB1 is probably a better way to try to get something similar to my first/original Yoga13, since this can be attached to a modern laptop -- as long as the laptop has a user-replaceable eDP screen and is 13.3" 16:9! (or you hack together a custom bezel for a 14" LOL)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs the "protective covering" tab on SPB1, which adds some gloss, but I'm starting to think it truly is matte underneath

i took a peek under the plastic cover (which is still on), and yep it's actually a matte panel 🙂

JTL

macsforme Not only that, but it would be interesting to flash the ROM of the “good” machine to the “bad” machine of the same model, to see if this makes the visual appearance the same.

Also my point

Donux

evthelegend I would probably get glasses, was delaying it for a while due to the need to get it measured and ordered for my head/eyes. Regarding eye strain and brain fog, I am suffering yet again Today from severe brain fog. Yesterday I have reached a point where I could barely speak. And it is all because I kept trying to use that macbook with external screen. I definitely does something to our brains and forehead, I can even relate to micro seizure activity too, as something is happening there specifically with MacBooks. But one thing I am missing in this conversation is - settings for your machine and monitor. I have found that setting everything to sRGB on monitor and on machines does help a lot (except macbook). Also disabling all the sensors, I believe helps too. (maybe this one is placebo, I do not now for sure). And ultimate help is acctually loweing bandwidth of information to your brain, i.e. smaller screens. This puts all your work stuff mentally at least into a territory of less significance - one of the important aspect of detachment.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs LP133WD2-SPB1 (temporarily attached to ThinkPad T480)

other things this WD2-SPB1 panel is getting right, even while connected to Windows 10 1809 on modern hardware:

(BTW, I am using Basic Display Driver to reduce possible variables, but given that Basic Display didn't fix the other ThinkPad panels I tried, these improvements seem to be at the panel level!)

a few optical illusion images "that are supposed to move" are actually STILL on this panel -- the only other screens that achieved this are my original Yoga13 and 2004 Nintendo DS
low-contrast stuff like fine-pixel-detailed light blue text against an equally washed-out blue background is actually still readable and looks just as sharp as normal text (but no oversharpened look) -- not even my Yoga13 achieves this(!) so this is actually super cool
when I two-finger zoom in to a webpage, my eyes don't have to refocus to see the larger text, and it doesn't appear closer to me i.e. large UI and smaller UI seem to appear at the same depth and don't require focus shifting (again only other PC screen that does this is my OG Yoga13. The second Yoga13 totally failed this test BTW LOL)
bitmap pixelated fonts and "pixel art" icons in older areas of Windows look SO good. so crispy and satisfying. and I don't notice any "blue/gray haze" around them unlike most modern screens
the backlight and appearance of white color is SUPER relaxing (but still cooler temperature, which I prefer on screens). I've heard others here describe this kind of white as "Windows 7 milky white"

It still has slight PWM (mild incandescent-like flicker, not strobe) and pixel inversion, the same as my OG Yoga13, but just like on that laptop they're mild enough to not be annoyed by flicker.

Also, no "intense pulling on my eyes feel" like the second Yoga13 was doing (AKA no "obvious" strain yet).

So far so good.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Just took off the glossy film and now using the LP133WD2-SPB1 as matte. Still good.

Image now feels even more stable/relaxing.

Surprised actually because I thought matte screens might have been one of the strain causes (which is why I was leaning towards glossy recently). This doesn't seem to be the case since it feels even better now…

However, that might be because the matte coating is REALLY good. I don't see any rainbowing or strange mesh patterns. No shimmer!! (Totally different from the low quality fuzzy one on the LP140WF5-SPB3 which made me feel weird even when I looked at it turned off)

Best way I can describe the coating is that it feels like the older "paper-like" matte screens in Windows XP-era laptops or mid-2000s matte flat-screen TVs

Also, the IPS viewing angles and uniformity is great, it doesn't have that weird "moving black stripe that follows your head" thing at all (that so many modern IPS panels seem to have).

I'm honestly starting to think, 90% chance, that this is the same exact panel and revision as the one in my original "strain-free" Yoga13 (with the only difference being modern eDP support!). Colors are literally IDENTICAL, I know these specific shades of green and blue by heart.

Still no strain

If it stays like this, this is 100% the most promising screen I've tried yet -- if that's the case, I'm actually going to reccommend buying this panel instead of trying to find my exact "obscure" Yoga13 revision

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs BTW, here's the exact seller I bought this screen from (when I bought it they offered 90-day returns, but now looks like it's 14-day instead)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs BTW even the BIOS on this SPB1 panel feels way better than the previous 3 panels swapped into the ThinkPad (and better than the weird one in the second Yoga)

So there is certainly some big improvement at the panel level since it's a still a UHD 620 "driving it" but it remains significantly better

For example, I don't feel disoriented after moving the selection up or down in the BIOS. Usually only my first Yoga13 and a few old TN monitors feel like this for me. (on the other hand, this was first thing I noticed was wrong on the second Yoga13😂)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

So far have read longer documents, frequent note taking, some coding / terminal, browsed social media, watched videos, did some music production all on the LG LP133WD2-SPB1, still connected to my T480. I am impressed.

Especially surprised by coding, felt so similar to coding on my safe screen and didn't get brain fog at all. Usually coding has a totally different "heavy" kind of feel on "strainy" screens but not here.

The muted colors + higher than average brightness combo is so good. It's simultaneously crisp and bright yet whites aren't blinding at all.

I've viewed many images on the panel with strange distorted perspectives or high contrast between blurry and clear areas, the type that usually causes immediate disorientation or eye pain on strainy screens — they were fine here, I could move my cursor around them and keep the image AND cursor in focus at the same time. Generally felt very flat paper-like in the best way.

For example, a dark-color large pillar in a photo felt like pretty much the same flat depth as the panel bezel. Very few screens achieve this for me.

Just a few more days before I can confidently give an ultimate verdict.

But I'm actually shocked how good this seems to be.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

JTL Yeah this would be ideal, but I essentially rely on my original Yoga13 because it's one of the only things I KNOW I can be productive on, and even though I've disassembled it in the past it's working too perfectly for me now to not want to accidentally break it

And the strainy one is useless to me, so it's going back, and taking that one apart would almost certainly void the return policy lol

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