screen-Induced Brain Fog & Eyestrain – CCFL + Blue Light Glasses Seem to Help

evthelegend if I have severe symptoms again it will confirm that LED is infact a major problem for me

Not necessarily, as there's always the chance that the monitor itself has a chip that adds post-processing/oversharpening/contrast "enhancement" etc. that can't be disabled

Stuff like that dates back to the mid-2000s.

For example, even an LG CCFL monitor from 2005 was advertised to have this:

FLATRON f-engine - World's first picture enhancing chip for LCD monitors: DAFI technology includes a RCM (Real Color Management) function to express vivid natural colors, and ACE (Adaptive Color and Contrast Enhancement) function to enhance brightness and contrast. The technology is ideal for mobile imaging in TV, film…

Another example is a NEC CCFL monitor from 2006 that I own, which adds an annoying, definitely "intentional" white highlight above all text, regardless of the PC connected (that's actually somehow brighter than the color it uses for white backgrounds…). That NEC monitor doesn't even acknowledge that it does this in the manual, and there's no setting to turn it off. (It also keeps dithering even when it's sent a true 6-bit signal LOL…)

This is why it's really hard to find a usable monitor, even older ones.

So even if all the specs of a monitor look right at first glance, there's always the chance the problem you have with it is not related to the specs (e.g. what kind of backlight it uses) and is actually something else the monitor is doing… but sometimes it is the light. The lack of precise documentation on monitors is what makes this challenging

evthelegend have you found a modern "perfect spec" monitor that works? surely they have plenty where you can control all the processing.

nope I have 7 external monitors, 4 CCFL TN, 1 LED TN, 2 LED IPS, and they all basically don't work for me (i.e. don't solve that "last 20%").

the only PC display that truly works for me ((in full color)) is the internal LCD of the IdeaPad Yoga 13 1st Gen

btw yeah, I do not trust Mac hardware to send a "clean image" to a monitor, even if a VM is running etc.

However, one exception…

One of my monitors (Motorola Atrix Laptop Dock, an old phone accessory that's basically a tiny 12-inch TN monitor) actually does work for me --BUT-- literally ONLY when pure maximum white/red/green/blue or black is sent to it --- it starts doing something weird the moment "any shades of gray" are involved.

However, I've been creative and figured how how to use it as a pretty nice "less laggy e-paper alternative" for reading/writing only, but no images, by getting Windows to only output a fully green/black image (not even gray) + no font smoothing + High Contrast themes to ensure app UI is visible in "true" monochrome. It also has no PWM at max brightness

Tried the same thing on my other 5 external monitors and they still caused strain, so it's specifically this monitor that became quite good(!) through this rather extreme strategy…

If you want more info about this one I can let you know, but note that it's only comfortable when used in this exact way, otherwise it causes strain (although is still readable). Also needs specific adapters to get it to connect and is kinda finicky due to this + its small size but I've made it work for me lol.

evthelegend Just recieved my second 2012 IdeaPad Yoga 13 1st Gen

New one currently arrived with Win10 Home 21H2

It also arrived with 2015 Intel drivers, slightly different versions though (old Aug 2015, new Dec 2015)

(previous "100% usable" one is running Win8.1 Pro. Will keep this one on 21H2 for now unless it doesn't work, will then try 8.1 if so…)

Both have the same panel ID, the very uncommon "IPS + 1600x900" combo: LGD0360 (LP133WD2-SLB1)

I will let y'all know if I can recreate the same exact screen comfort on both

If this works, I'll post an updated guide with the exact setup instructions

evthelegend really promising first impressions so far. color shifts and viewing angles respond the same way, so it's definitely the correct panel.

of course, every LCD (even when comparing the same model) has slight differences, and I need to try a bunch of different types of work before I actually give a real verdict or and know whether comfort is same/worse/better than my "trusted" one.

one thing i can say though, this is the nicest I've seen Windows 10 21H2 yet…

this is the first time I've ever seen a "modern" OS version running natively on a laptop without "immediately feeling like something is wrong"!!

(however, I don't know how my original Yoga 13 would compare if it was running 21H2, because I don't want to update it from my perfect 8.1 setup LOL.)

only time will tell if it stays this way.

only tweaks so far are ditherig.exe + disable_dpst.bat + disable Calibration Loader service

BTW, outside of screen comfort -- even though this laptop is from 11 years ago it's actually running very smoothly on Win10, webpages and apps are loading fast. -- pleasantly surprised

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

I have been using a brand new IdeaPad 5 2-in-1 with less strain that expected for the past month using the internal FHD IPS display (running stock linux mint 22 and amd 780m igpu). Perhaps the dim display and lack of wide color gamut support contributes positively.

https://www.xda-developers.com/lenovo-ideapad-5-2-in-1-14-inch-amd-review/

photon78s Perhaps the dim display and lack of wide color gamut support contributes positively.

Not sure about this — because that basic stock Innolux panel in my T480, it was 45% sRGB 220 nit — but even after some tweaks made it """tolerable""", in the end it was still super uncomfortable and giving me immediate strain/headaches. Also had a lot of weird panel-level oversharpening stuff going on

Meanwhile, my original Yoga 13 panel is also 45% sRGB, a similarly low contrast ratio, but is great

So just a low color gamut alone doesn't make a panel safe

(I still generally prefer low color gamut though, since 100% sRGB or higher has its own set of issues for me like way too bright reds)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

update 1

second Yoga13 has the "same" LP133WD2-SLB1 panel but there are differences

i think it's a different revision of the laptop

even though my original one is perfect… this second one is not good

differences

still better than modern laptops, text is readable and not fuzzy — but i'm definitely getting noticeable eyestrain here + constant annoying "scratchy" feeling in eyes… (compared to my original Yoga13 where i get basically NO strain at ALL no matter where I look on the screen)

i notice a slight "oversharpening", "extra shadows", "contrast enhanced" look to the image… that simply isn't there on my original one, comparing side-by-side…

colors are similar but slightly off. blue is more saturated, green is more "olive". white looks same at first glance, but ever so slightly more orange on this "worse" one (not a yellow tint though)

i can reduce strain with really strong color adjustments — but that's a far cry from mine where i don't need to tweak ANY colors…… on my original, i can literally just stare at the pure display at near-default settings and it's so comfy (in fact, my original was still pretty nice even before i disabled temporal dithering on it)

(It feels different even in the BIOS. Also tried Windows 8.1 with same exact installation USB and drivers/settings, also tried Basic Display. I'm pretty sure the difference is NOT dithering or flicker-related. PWM is the same on both. Both have no color profile.)

not terrible, one of the better devices I've tested this year. but it's nowhere near the "legendary" status of my own Yoga 13.

i have that discomfort constantly lurking in the background while i'm using it, and the amount changes depending on the image like other modern devices — compared to my original, where it's absolute relaxation no matter what's onscreen

it doesn't solve that "last 20% of strain" like mine does. when i put them side by side, immediately relieved when i look back at mine…

it's a different revision?

despite having the same BIOS version, same LCD panel ID, similar manufacturing date, and identical appearance, there are some really odd differences I've spotted

My Yoga13 (incredible, essentially zero strain)

• Model Name in BIOS is just "Yoga 13"
• System Model "Mocca 2.0"
• System SKU "LENOVO_BI_IDEAPAD66" (weirdly literally only 4 results for this online)
• i7-3537U
• …can't compare bottom sticker since it's too washed out on mine

Second Yoga13 (readable but definitely get strained, not recommendable)

• Model Name in BIOS is "Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13"
• System Model "20175"
• System SKU "LENOVO_MT_20175"
• "Press F2 for Setup" font is different(!), despite same BIOS version, will post pics soon
• i7-3517U
• keyboard has way more travel (this one's probably not connected to revision though, just keyboard lottery)

what's really odd is that every used listing i've seen that posts specs, they line up with the second one, i can't find a single listing yet that says "just Yoga 13" in BIOS like mine does

will return this one. but since i need a "backup laptop" in case mine breaks, i will still be searching!

…of course, my original one is still as perfect as it's always been

@evthelegend @jordan

TLDR:

i still reccomend trying a Yoga13 because my original one remains great — but definitely check with the seller that it is Model "Mocca 2.0" in System Information or just "Yoga 13" in BIOS (and potentially avoid "Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13" shown in BIOS unless it's the only one you can find)

however this seems way more difficult than expected, given how obscure my original one's SKU is

also make sure you can return it

BTW let me know if there's any images you want me to take a close up macro comparison of before I return this

evthelegend

nope.

i have other old devices that i've owned for a while, have used for a while (for example, late 2008 macbook pro 15" that i "used" pretty frequently between 2012-2017 -- tolerable but not a "safe" screen), but have always been "kinda unproductive" on compared to other hardware & consistently had more brain fog on & have leaned towards using other devices instead

the only difference is that before i knew i was screen-sensitive, i always jumped to other factors first when in reality it was the exact same thing i deal with today

• i thought i was less productive on MBP 2008 because "it was too heavy on my lap and that makes me tired" (Actually, it was generally hard to read and whatever the screen is doing gives me fatigue, even if it's on a table. If I compare the number of things i actually built/wrote/learned/read on it to my OG Yoga13, which I was also using in the same era, it's way less)

• i ended up always using an old 2014 ASUS netbook in Linux "console-only" mode to write all my english assignments in high school, instead of my at-the-time current 2016 MacBook Pro, because "i thought it had less distractions" (Actually, the screen is SO much better to read long documents on, console mode is what reduces strain the most since it's monochrome, and remains good for writing to this day -- although now I have better options. One time I tried to write on Mac instead, and I vividly remember the text shimmering and the brain fog)

• i never completed a video game on my 2015 GPD XD android handheld because "i thought it had too much input lag" (Actually, input lag was totally fine in retrospect, but it was one of the first screens that was bad enough where I actually noticed the "false 3D effect" even back then which made games difficult-to-play because my vision keeps going in and out of focus, and it's still uncomfortable now)

• Motorola Atrix Laptop Dock (11-inch portable TN monitor) that i've technically owned since 2013, but have literally only used once or twice so i basically don't have any "tolerance". i finally remembered it again last month and seriously tested it for the first time -- image was already better than modern screens, but still was getting some strain.

• BUT THEN… i used the Laptop Dock with a basic Linux console, and out of nowhere, it suddenly felt even better for writing than the 2014 netbook that i'm "used to". i realized that it was doing something messed up whenever actual "shades of colors" are involved, but pure black/white/red/green/blue was fine.

• finally, i had the idea to make the Windows desktop "pure green and black" too (i.e. not even grayscale) with NegativeScreen + High Contrast and BOOM… as long as that limitation is in place, i've actually been productive writing on it for a week now because that seemingly works around it's display controller's post-processing. (btw the LCD controller is Realtek RTD2482D)

• nothing "imaginary" here, doing this literally killed it's oversharpening and "contrast enhancement" and i can write better on it than my 2014 netbook now, even though this is basically my first time using it.

  (this method is actually unique to the Laptop Dock. the same strategy doesn't fix my other strainy screens…)

update 2

cc @photon78s

The LP133WD2-SPB1 panel just arrived which I'm now trying in my ThinkPad T480. According to Panelook it's supposed to have the exact same specs as the Yoga 13's LP133WD2-SLB1 but with an eDP cable instead of LVDS.

This is literally the only 1600x900 IPS that connects to modern laptops.

yes, T480 is 14" but this is 13"…I just have it taped to the lid LOL. if it's good, I'll exchange the T480 for a 13-inch like L380 or X390 (as long as the other laptop renders the same way, ofc)

We now know there's panel variation in the SLB1, since the second Yoga13 is strainy. So just same specs doesn't necessarily mean good.

But…

First impressions: this is already doing a better job at emulating my Yoga13, than an actual 2nd Yoga13

Of course, I can't say "it's good" or anything yet, but I'm testing some images that caused strain on the "new" Yoga13 and they feel way closer to my original one here -- particularly in the way my eyes focus.

What's even more -- I wasn't even expecting this at all -- but apparently the LCD decides the font for "To interrupt normal startup, press Enter" on the BIOS since it changed. This is notable because it's literally rendering the same font as my original Yoga13 and not the weird one the second has.

Given the font, and that this SPB1 is in a "modern" laptop with UHD 620 and it's already way better than the "second" SLB1, this possibly means that the revisional difference was in the SLB1 panel itself? (arguably, only have Basic Display Driver enabled for now, but I also tried Basic Display on the "new" Yoga13 too and it didn't solve things, so I'm surprised that this is already way more comfortable than that)

It's also way better than the terrible Innolux that came with the T480, and I can tell it's a significant step up from the two LP140WF3-SPD1 that I tried recently (which were kinda more tolerable than Innolux, but still too much strain/blurriness for me and had a weird "mesh" pattern over the screen)

Note: Panelook says both SPB1 and the SLB1 are matte. Yoga13 is totally glossy, so I'm starting to think that the way it's used there is actually still a matte panel underneath, but with a glossy layer on top for the touch digitizer. (Yet another thing that makes Yoga13 unique, but definitely not "what makes it good" since the second revision of Yoga13 is strainy despite this.)

Currently, haven't pulled off the "protective covering" tab on SPB1, which adds some gloss, but I'm starting to think it truly is matte underneath since I see less reflections than on my Yoga13. I'm actually keeping the covering on for now since I'm getting a really good first impression. Not sure if the protector's gloss plays into this, but because I'm already liking what I'm seeing I don't want to touch it.

Will let y'all know how this goes.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

update 2: LP133WD2-SPB1 (temporarily attached to ThinkPad T480) is definitely the best new screen i've tried so far

it seems to feel very similar to my original Yoga13. colors are identical

(unlike that very strainy second Yoga13 that had noticeably off-feeling colors and harsh orange-ish white backgrounds and felt like a totally different revision despite having same panel ID)

text is extremely easy to read and everything looks SO crisp in a good way i.e. actually physically sharp -- not in a "modern device using an oversharpening filter on a blurry image" way

also, photos with fisheye lens do NOT seem to "bulge out of the screen (and then cause immediate strain due to that)", which is super unique and very promising because all other PC screens I've tested -- except for my original Mocca 2.0 Yoga13 -- have had this problem in some way, even old CCFL TN monitors

so clarity and readability is impressive, but will keep testing until i post any verdict about whether it is "good/strain-free/recommendable" or if it still has strain

btw the SPB1 is probably a better way to try to get something similar to my first/original Yoga13, since this can be attached to a modern laptop -- as long as the laptop has a user-replaceable eDP screen and is 13.3" 16:9! (or you hack together a custom bezel for a 14" LOL)