screen-Induced Brain Fog & Eyestrain – CCFL + Blue Light Glasses Seem to Help

evthelegend

nope.

i have other old devices that i've owned for a while, have used for a while (for example, late 2008 macbook pro 15" that i "used" pretty frequently between 2012-2017 -- tolerable but not a "safe" screen), but have always been "kinda unproductive" on compared to other hardware & consistently had more brain fog on & have leaned towards using other devices instead

the only difference is that before i knew i was screen-sensitive, i always jumped to other factors first when in reality it was the exact same thing i deal with today

• i thought i was less productive on MBP 2008 because "it was too heavy on my lap and that makes me tired" (Actually, it was generally hard to read and whatever the screen is doing gives me fatigue, even if it's on a table. If I compare the number of things i actually built/wrote/learned/read on it to my OG Yoga13, which I was also using in the same era, it's way less)

• i ended up always using an old 2014 ASUS netbook in Linux "console-only" mode to write all my english assignments in high school, instead of my at-the-time current 2016 MacBook Pro, because "i thought it had less distractions" (Actually, the screen is SO much better to read long documents on, console mode is what reduces strain the most since it's monochrome, and remains good for writing to this day -- although now I have better options. One time I tried to write on Mac instead, and I vividly remember the text shimmering and the brain fog)

• i never completed a video game on my 2015 GPD XD android handheld because "i thought it had too much input lag" (Actually, input lag was totally fine in retrospect, but it was one of the first screens that was bad enough where I actually noticed the "false 3D effect" even back then which made games difficult-to-play because my vision keeps going in and out of focus, and it's still uncomfortable now)

• Motorola Atrix Laptop Dock (11-inch portable TN monitor) that i've technically owned since 2013, but have literally only used once or twice so i basically don't have any "tolerance". i finally remembered it again last month and seriously tested it for the first time -- image was already better than modern screens, but still was getting some strain.

• BUT THEN… i used the Laptop Dock with a basic Linux console, and out of nowhere, it suddenly felt even better for writing than the 2014 netbook that i'm "used to". i realized that it was doing something messed up whenever actual "shades of colors" are involved, but pure black/white/red/green/blue was fine.

• finally, i had the idea to make the Windows desktop "pure green and black" too (i.e. not even grayscale) with NegativeScreen + High Contrast and BOOM… as long as that limitation is in place, i've actually been productive writing on it for a week now because that seemingly works around it's display controller's post-processing. (btw the LCD controller is Realtek RTD2482D)

• nothing "imaginary" here, doing this literally killed it's oversharpening and "contrast enhancement" and i can write better on it than my 2014 netbook now, even though this is basically my first time using it.

  (this method is actually unique to the Laptop Dock. the same strategy doesn't fix my other strainy screens…)

update 2

cc @photon78s

The LP133WD2-SPB1 panel just arrived which I'm now trying in my ThinkPad T480. According to Panelook it's supposed to have the exact same specs as the Yoga 13's LP133WD2-SLB1 but with an eDP cable instead of LVDS.

This is literally the only 1600x900 IPS that connects to modern laptops.

yes, T480 is 14" but this is 13"…I just have it taped to the lid LOL. if it's good, I'll exchange the T480 for a 13-inch like L380 or X390 (as long as the other laptop renders the same way, ofc)

We now know there's panel variation in the SLB1, since the second Yoga13 is strainy. So just same specs doesn't necessarily mean good.

But…

First impressions: this is already doing a better job at emulating my Yoga13, than an actual 2nd Yoga13

Of course, I can't say "it's good" or anything yet, but I'm testing some images that caused strain on the "new" Yoga13 and they feel way closer to my original one here -- particularly in the way my eyes focus.

What's even more -- I wasn't even expecting this at all -- but apparently the LCD decides the font for "To interrupt normal startup, press Enter" on the BIOS since it changed. This is notable because it's literally rendering the same font as my original Yoga13 and not the weird one the second has.

Given the font, and that this SPB1 is in a "modern" laptop with UHD 620 and it's already way better than the "second" SLB1, this possibly means that the revisional difference was in the SLB1 panel itself? (arguably, only have Basic Display Driver enabled for now, but I also tried Basic Display on the "new" Yoga13 too and it didn't solve things, so I'm surprised that this is already way more comfortable than that)

It's also way better than the terrible Innolux that came with the T480, and I can tell it's a significant step up from the two LP140WF3-SPD1 that I tried recently (which were kinda more tolerable than Innolux, but still too much strain/blurriness for me and had a weird "mesh" pattern over the screen)

Note: Panelook says both SPB1 and the SLB1 are matte. Yoga13 is totally glossy, so I'm starting to think that the way it's used there is actually still a matte panel underneath, but with a glossy layer on top for the touch digitizer. (Yet another thing that makes Yoga13 unique, but definitely not "what makes it good" since the second revision of Yoga13 is strainy despite this.)

Currently, haven't pulled off the "protective covering" tab on SPB1, which adds some gloss, but I'm starting to think it truly is matte underneath since I see less reflections than on my Yoga13. I'm actually keeping the covering on for now since I'm getting a really good first impression. Not sure if the protector's gloss plays into this, but because I'm already liking what I'm seeing I don't want to touch it.

Will let y'all know how this goes.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

update 2: LP133WD2-SPB1 (temporarily attached to ThinkPad T480) is definitely the best new screen i've tried so far

it seems to feel very similar to my original Yoga13. colors are identical

(unlike that very strainy second Yoga13 that had noticeably off-feeling colors and harsh orange-ish white backgrounds and felt like a totally different revision despite having same panel ID)

text is extremely easy to read and everything looks SO crisp in a good way i.e. actually physically sharp -- not in a "modern device using an oversharpening filter on a blurry image" way

also, photos with fisheye lens do NOT seem to "bulge out of the screen (and then cause immediate strain due to that)", which is super unique and very promising because all other PC screens I've tested -- except for my original Mocca 2.0 Yoga13 -- have had this problem in some way, even old CCFL TN monitors

so clarity and readability is impressive, but will keep testing until i post any verdict about whether it is "good/strain-free/recommendable" or if it still has strain

btw the SPB1 is probably a better way to try to get something similar to my first/original Yoga13, since this can be attached to a modern laptop -- as long as the laptop has a user-replaceable eDP screen and is 13.3" 16:9! (or you hack together a custom bezel for a 14" LOL)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs LP133WD2-SPB1 (temporarily attached to ThinkPad T480)

other things this WD2-SPB1 panel is getting right, even while connected to Windows 10 1809 on modern hardware:

(BTW, I am using Basic Display Driver to reduce possible variables, but given that Basic Display didn't fix the other ThinkPad panels I tried, these improvements seem to be at the panel level!)

• a few optical illusion images "that are supposed to move" are actually STILL on this panel -- the only other screens that achieved this are my original Yoga13 and 2004 Nintendo DS

• low-contrast stuff like fine-pixel-detailed light blue text against an equally washed-out blue background is actually still readable and looks just as sharp as normal text (but no oversharpened look) -- not even my Yoga13 achieves this(!) so this is actually super cool

• when I two-finger zoom in to a webpage, my eyes don't have to refocus to see the larger text, and it doesn't appear closer to me i.e. large UI and smaller UI seem to appear at the same depth and don't require focus shifting (again only other PC screen that does this is my OG Yoga13. The second Yoga13 totally failed this test BTW LOL)

• bitmap pixelated fonts and "pixel art" icons in older areas of Windows look SO good. so crispy and satisfying. and I don't notice any "blue/gray haze" around them unlike most modern screens

• the backlight and appearance of white color is SUPER relaxing (but still cooler temperature, which I prefer on screens). I've heard others here describe this kind of white as "Windows 7 milky white"

It still has slight PWM (mild incandescent-like flicker, not strobe) and pixel inversion, the same as my OG Yoga13, but just like on that laptop they're mild enough to not be annoyed by flicker.

Also, no "intense pulling on my eyes feel" like the second Yoga13 was doing (AKA no "obvious" strain yet).

So far so good.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs BTW even the BIOS on this SPB1 panel feels way better than the previous 3 panels swapped into the ThinkPad (and better than the weird one in the second Yoga)

So there is certainly some big improvement at the panel level since it's a still a UHD 620 "driving it" but it remains significantly better

For example, I don't feel disoriented after moving the selection up or down in the BIOS. Usually only my first Yoga13 and a few old TN monitors feel like this for me. (on the other hand, this was first thing I noticed was wrong on the second Yoga13)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

So far have read longer documents, frequent note taking, some coding / terminal, browsed social media, watched videos, did some music production all on the LG LP133WD2-SPB1, still connected to my T480. I am impressed.

Especially surprised by coding, felt so similar to coding on my safe screen and didn't get brain fog at all. Usually coding has a totally different "heavy" kind of feel on "strainy" screens but not here.

The muted colors + higher than average brightness combo is so good. It's simultaneously crisp and bright yet whites aren't blinding at all.

I've viewed many images on the panel with strange distorted perspectives or high contrast between blurry and clear areas, the type that usually causes immediate disorientation or eye pain on strainy screens — they were fine here, I could move my cursor around them and keep the image AND cursor in focus at the same time. Generally felt very flat paper-like in the best way.

For example, a dark-color large pillar in a photo felt like pretty much the same flat depth as the panel bezel. Very few screens achieve this for me.

Just a few more days before I can confidently give an ultimate verdict.

But I'm actually shocked how good this seems to be.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Just a quick update, even though it was succeeding at the basic stuff, eyes kept getting gradually more abnormally dry/slight burning feeling after each time I used it (not because I used it for too long, because some screens don't do this to me at all and I took frequent breaks too) Was also getting this weird kind of mild but still sharp feeling in corners of eyes that continues to increase in frequency, that makes me think it won't be good in the long run. (even if I tried to get used to it)

So unfortunately I can't personally recommend this panel.

It got close to the threshold but couldn't cross it for me

Also, I watched a longer video on it and couldn't follow it at all, lots of double vision. Was watching through NoMachine and with Basic Display to avoid it applying video processing but still had issues. Then right after I watched it on my good 2012 laptop, same NoMachine client, and it was fine. E-ink Boox Palma I bought this year is fine for videos too, even some OLED TVs I can tolerate — so it's not just because I'm used to my old screen. Was pretty unexpected.

So although it passed a surprising amount of basic tests, some more complex tests are giving me red flags

I have 3 more panels to try — for now, I will stop posting since I don't want to spread misinformation.

I will only follow up if one of them truly works for me lol

@evthelegend @photon78s

Big update:

I am now trying two AUO TN panels from 2015 —

One 1600x900 matte (which has surprisingly nice and uniform, but muted colors), and the other 1366x768 glossy (which is a more typical old-school washed-out TN).

These are the best so far by a HUGE margin, wayyyyy better than all of the LG IPS I was previously testing.

I'm already finding them more comfortable than any of my 5 TN external monitors (including both LED and CCFL ones, even the 2005 monitor I have).

There is something VERY different about these TNs I'm trying compared to other TNs I have used.

(For example I saw a newer ThinkPad in the wild recently with a stock 1366x768 "modern TN" — probably from BOE lol — and it was terrible with instant strain. Samsung TN panels are also problematic for me.

But these are nothing like that… my first immediate reaction using these is actually "wow this is comfortable" — the first screens this year where I have reacted this way.)

BTW, I also have issues with AUO IPS (AHVA) panels, but these AUO TNs are totally different from those too.

Two whole days so far of note taking + watching multiple longer videos, writing emails and even some music production on the 1600x900 and was very comfortable.

Honestly some things such as scrolling and reading seem to feel better than my original Yoga 13 which is also something I've never been able to say about a screen before.

I feel like the solution will lie in a TN and not IPS.

Will update again in a few days

evthelegend wow this is good, have you been able to find a reason as to why these panels work so much better?

Seems like a lack of post-processing/sharpening/contrast enhancement/noise reduction "features" within the panel's LCD controller itself.

IMO, color post-processing -- especially types that easily manipulate depth perception like red/blue fringing -- seem to cause way more strain and "brain fog" for me, compared to flicker-related strain (with the exception of classic "strobe-like PWM that's both 'invisible' and intense" which gives me headaches, even in lightbulbs and CRTs.)

BTW, the panels are:

• AUO B140RTN03.0 (1600x900 14" TN, Matte, manufactured 2015, revision H/W 6A, F/W 1).

• AUO B140XTN02.D (1366x768 14" TN, Glossy, manufactured 2015, currently installed and forgot to write down revision lol).

They are 6-bit but dithering can be disabled with ditherig.exe. Disclaimer: they still have that "mild" PWM (but not strobe-like), and some pixel inversion flicker. But they are so comfortable compared to the other panels I've tried that I'm beginning to think flicker isn't the main issue here.

To install them in Lenovo T480, all I had to do was temporarily disable the battery in BIOS, take off the bezel, unscrew and disconnect the original panel, and screw the new one in.

The only "hard" part was slowly/carefully taking off the bezel the first time because they stick some adhesive to it. (After the first time, it's way easier to remove the bezel!)

Also, I still have Intel UHD drivers disabled even with better panels, if you want to know why, see details here:

Here's why I think the AUO TN panels are working:

Many images that include lots of dense, high-contrast lines seem to be very "pure" in the area "around" the lines -- instead of feeling like all of the lines are "sticking my eyes to them" or have bluish or reddish glows/halos/shadows around them.

Another way to explain it is that looking at a part of the screen "feels the same" regardless if there's a totally blank space there, or if there's a really "complex" thing there.

(Whereas on "bad" screens, it is painful to look at any part of the screen where there is "complex information-dense content" or a "large blurry/stretched/distorted image", and the "painful areas" actually change depending on the onscreen content. That LG IPS I was "initially optimistic about" failed because it had this issue).

A test I did that I am VERY satisfied with, and has actually pushed these panels to the point I actually might recommend them, is that I set some "complex" images as my wallpaper like engineering diagrams or intricate architecture, and they didn't "distract me" from my work -- it felt the same as setting a simple wallpaper. Not even my original Lenovo Yoga can do this, so this is actually an improvement to my "safe screen".

I actually feel so freed by this, since it seems like I can finally use any wallpaper I want instead of needing to set a "solid color background" to focus.

(I originally thought this was purely because my brain needed less distractions and more simplicity, but again this seems to be actually caused by the screen itself.)

evthelegend will look more into trying a tn panel as my IPS doesn't seem to be cutting it.

TNs have more potential yes, but it doesn't seem like just TN alone is what makes these good.

As I mentioned, I have five old TN monitors and all of them are some degree "unusable" or "strainy" to me -- even one from 2005. Some are OK for "basic computer use", but immediately start messing with my brain once I start reading e.g. a textbook, a code file, or complex diagrams. Even if they're connected to an old computer.

Plus, I've tried old MacBooks with TN panels and they didn't work for me (even when running Windows/Linux). 2008 MBP had no PWM, but looked blurry and felt brain fog/tiredness/disorientation when reading documents. 2009 MBP was at least readable and "clear", but had super intense "strobe PWM" even at max brightness, in addition to some other weird color processing, and the strain was too painful to continue using it.

So these AUO TN laptop panels are super unique for me. For 4 days now I have been able to use them AND feel comfortable using them. And with some content, even more comfortable than my "safe screen" is(!) And they are connected to a semi-modern laptop. These are the first panels I've tried where, so far, I'm not feeling the urge to go back to my "safe screen".

evthelegend BOOX tab ultra C

Something to check after getting Tab Ultra is whether the virtual touch keyboard is smooth or is constantly missing keypresses. On my Ultra, the touch screen is super inaccurate even after installing third-party keyboards like SwiftKey.

Because of this, the Ultra is less useful for me than I wanted since I have to carry around an external keyboard to type anything. Also, the official magnetic keyboard disconnects constantly and can't be reliably used on surfaces that aren't totally flat like my lap.

IMO, if your Ultra ends up having the same issue, I'd suggest getting a Palma instead since my Palma has great touch accuracy. Using SwiftKey, I can type on Palma just as fast as my phone with no typos. (Or try one of their other tablets with pen support if you need that -- no idea about touch accuracy on those though)

Despite the smaller screen, the Palma is wayyyyy more useful for me since I can actually type on the touchscreen