Hey everyone, I wanted to share my experience with screen-related brain fog and eyestrain, as I know a lot of people deal with this. until recently, I was struggling with severe eyestrain, which was somewhat manageable until brain fog and dizziness started to kick in. The brain fog hit hard and was completely debilitating. After trying a bunch of things, I suspected that LED lighting or blue light might be part of the issue, so I started experimenting with external monitors. I recently switched over to a Dell U2410f monitor, which uses CCFL backlighting instead of the more common LED, and connected it via a USB-C to HDMI cable from a M3 air . I also got myself a pair of affordable blue light blocking glasses to see if that would help alongside F.lux, Stillcolor and staying further away from the screen. The results? A significant improvement! My symptoms have reduced by about 80%. The brain fog and eyestrain aren’t completely gone, but they’re way more manageable now. I suspect that part of the lingering discomfort might be due to neuroplasticity and my brain adjusting after long-term exposure to bad screens. but, I am not sure of this, and am trying to pinpoint the last 20 percent of symptoms in hopes of having a workstation where I can be deeply focused, and right now that is just beyond reach because of the remaining symptoms. could I still be suffering from PWM or some other form of flickering? I don't believe it could be the blue light anymore because the glasses cut out 99.9 percent of it so that must mean that symptoms are coming from elsewhere. I have Stillcolor on so this display should be dithering-free and low brightness seems to be better for me and that would not be the case if it were PWM. am I missing something? symptoms also improve the further away I am from the screen so that also re-affirms my suspicions that it could be something to do with light, (although moving further away could change a lot of things) current symptoms is dizziness mainly with slight eye pressure, it is not extreme but it is very bothersome. Has anyone else had similar experiences ? Would love to hear if anyone else found a fix for that last 20% of symptoms! all replies greatly appreciated. this is a follow-up post from my original about my problem.

evthelegend macOS doesn't generate "clean" display output even with Stillcolor, there is a lot of weird color management stuff and strange anomalies to the output that isn't even fully figured out by us here yet (for one, Macs are infamously known to send YCbCr output to most monitors — something that is more associated with televisions instead of RGB by default — which makes text blurrier. But even fixing that with a workaround doesn't fully solve the "strange" output.) A better bet is to connect an older Windows laptop to the monitor. If you still need to use Mac apps, you can use an app like NoMachine or RealVNC Viewer in order to connect to your Mac from that PC. In addition, the monitor is likely still doing its own FRC dithering (AKA, moving grainy static), as the monitor is probably 6-bit but is being sent an 8-bit signal. The only known way to get around that one is to use an even older Windows laptop that is running Windows 7 or earlier (which supports selecting "16-bit" output). Or, running Linux on a PC laptop and then forcing "DefaultDepth 16" or "DefaultDepth 15" in an Xorg config file. (However Linux is also known to have its own set of display issues, it depends on the hardware.) Finally, compared to standard blue blocking glasses, I find that these "pure red" ones work wayyyy more effectively for me, they even help me "semi-tolerate" some screens I otherwise couldn't read at all! And when they're used with a screen setup that's already "pretty good", it makes it even better, so whenever I don't need color I always use them! (the ones I linked are the exact ones I use daily. All the other colors offered on the page didn't do anything for me, but there's something really unique about the "pure red" variant) Finally, in my case I actually did find my fix for that "last 20%", it's that one specific old Windows 8 laptop that I've talked about a ton of times on this forum. Literally I have found NO other screen, including other old devices, that feels like that one laptop yet. There is something different about it that somehow makes it perfect for me. If you want me to give a run down of my exact laptop + setup I can! (I actually bought a second one of my exact "perfect" laptop to verify if I can re-create the same setup consistently lol. It's arriving in a few days)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs The u2410f I believe is 8+2frc

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs what was the laptop that you used? I want to try something other than Mac but I don't have anything but that so ill need to order something soon.

evthelegend It's the Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13 (first generation) from 2012, 8GB RAM, Core i7-3537U with Intel HD Graphics 4000. I am running a ~2019 build of Windows 8.1. Windows 10 might work too but I have a perfect setup on 8.1. It can be found used for about $100-150. This screen inside this laptop is a 13-inch IPS at 1600x900 (LG Display, LCD panel ID LP133WD2-SLB1). It's essentially "legendary" because IPS panels are pretty much never made in this resolution, usually 1600x900 screens are TN — except for this specific one and 2 revisions of it lol. To me, the size of the UI at this resolution is perfect. (Note: the Panelook specs oddly say that the panel is matte, but it's actually glossy. Even if you prefer matte this shouldn't affect your decision because IMO this screen is so good regardless) The rarity of this screen is also great because to my research, this is one of the few cases where a laptop doesn't have the "screen supplier lottery", so as far as I know when you buy this laptop it should have the same panel as mine! (The other two revisions were made for Fujitsu/NEC laptops respectively, so unless someone replaced the screen, the exact revision should also be the same!) Currently, it's the ONLY (non E-ink) device/panel that TRULY "crosses the threshold 🌀" and solves that final 20% for me. Aside from the resolution, the screen specs appear to be pretty standard for the time (shockingly it has a WLED backlight and not CCFL but remains amazing) but there's something that sets it apart from every other IPS, it's totally a mystery. My only theory is that it lacks most or possibly all "post-processing"/artificial contrast "enhancement" that would usually be done by the panel etc. Dithering flicker can be eliminated with kawamoto's dithering settings (ditherig.exe). There is a tiny bit of backlight flicker (it appears more like subtle incandescent flicker on camera instead of intense strobe-like flicker) but surprisingly it doesn't affect my reading/productivity/eyestrain. Usually I do have issues with flicker (I feel super drained under any generic flickering LED lightbulb) but somehow, not here! Your sensitivities sound really similar to mine so I'm pretty optimistic this screen might also work for you. It's also one of the only devices that somehow energizes me when I look at it instead of draining me (I don't know why. The only other two devices that achieve this for me are the backlit version of Game Boy SP and the 2004 Nintendo DS which also have "perfect" screens IMO). The Yoga 13 does this consistently enough that I quite literally look at it to recover from bad screens LOL. It actually restores my vision back to normal faster than just resting. Again, no idea how but it just works. If you get one, I can walk you through exactly how I configured mine to get best possible display output + really solid remote connection setup to "use Mac apps through its screen" (which also is great for working around the limited performance of the old hardware by off-loading the computing to a modern device!) Finally, as I mentioned before I'm getting a second one delivered to me to verify if I really can recreate the same exact feeling on another unit! It will arrive in 2 days

Thanks for the detailed breakdown! I’m sold—I’m going to get one and give it a try! I’ll definitely hit you up for the configuration tips once I get it. Also excited to hear how your second unit compares!

evthelegend awesome! make sure to get the Core i7 version of that laptop (since i have no idea if there are any differences in the Core i3/i5 versions) for reference, here's what it looks like to ensure you're getting the first generation model (and not the Yoga 2, etc.) https://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Lenovo-IdeaPad-Yoga-13-Ultrabook.84080.0.html

thx, imma try linux on my monitor because it seems like you can mess around with the screen processing so maybe that could be a solution

evthelegend fyi for the specific laptop I am recommending, that "perfect" setup I achieved on its internal LCD only works with windows (I tried Linux on that laptop and there's something weird/flickery about the output that I don't get in windows) but yeah for your external monitor trying different software and seeing what works makes sense!

good to know, currently working on making a setup with no dithering,pwm,ccfl, low blue light and any other post processing done to a screen, if I eliminate every known trigger I should in theory have a screen that I can use for hours on end. my current monitor still has pwn so I will be looking for a monitor without it while still being ccfl and running linux. also I ordered a hp omen 27q monitor <a href="https://www.amazon.com/HP-OMEN-Gaming-Monitor-Display/dp/B0C171KBM3/ref=sr_1_1?crid=UV62E2QUAB05&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.G__9NXfQainQw06UnsT0sVWVNByMdxbIJ2k1fV2TmSv_8NG2ULcERHL_dH9wvUiYR4ZMFAMdFqbBc6XtXc2bqM0PXBCQeEmjFIrQ_xbe_09aKp-5rsTZUYvqOHo1GhxpYarqwT_HC12L0Oej_3HHgdX_6n9KFg8rfUymHS7AWoy4kWwV6Ou84RJAvybbGx5cpxgZxDIg8RmdkZrYqvmm3VzoNrycrXfVpi650Tw0e68HfIppozriCAVrRk7vfwtxHWySqV9HB6cbtp_8su-3GrgDTYTIME79yb049agI-fg.bgm29CiYr0mHwMc3vP7xgW0_wqp82oP9C3Flq1HbCf8&dib_tag=se&keywords=hp+omen+27q&qid=1728317690&s=electronics&sprefix=hp+omen+27q%2Celectronics%2C202&sr=1-1" rel="ugc noopener nofollow" target="_blank" rel="ugc noopener nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/HP-OMEN-Gaming-Monitor-Display/dp/B0C171KBM3/ref=sr_1_1?crid=UV62E2QUAB05&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.G__9NXfQainQw06UnsT0sVWVNByMdxbIJ2k1fV2TmSv_8NG2ULcERHL_dH9wvUiYR4ZMFAMdFqbBc6XtXc2bqM0PXBCQeEmjFIrQ_xbe_09aKp-5rsTZUYvqOHo1GhxpYarqwT_HC12L0Oej_3HHgdX_6n9KFg8rfUymHS7AWoy4kWwV6Ou84RJAvybbGx5cpxgZxDIg8RmdkZrYqvmm3VzoNrycrXfVpi650Tw0e68HfIppozriCAVrRk7vfwtxHWySqV9HB6cbtp_8su-3GrgDTYTIME79yb049agI-fg.bgm29CiYr0mHwMc3vP7xgW0_wqp82oP9C3Flq1HbCf8&dib_tag=se&keywords=hp+omen+27q&qid=1728317690&s=electronics&sprefix=hp+omen+27q%2Celectronics%2C202&sr=1-1 basically a perfect monitor besides the LED (if I have severe symptoms again it will confirm that LED is infact a major problem for me as I am not sure yet) longterm use of my current monitor gives me the same symptoms as before, only difference is it happens more gradually so that confirms ccfl is not a fix, but could be part of one.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs your laptop is LED im sure because its 2012, so I wouldn't be surprised if led is not the culprit

screen-Induced Brain Fog & Eyestrain – CCFL + Blue Light Glasses Seem to Help

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Just took off the glossy film and now using the LP133WD2-SPB1 as matte. Still good.

Image now feels even more stable/relaxing.

Surprised actually because I thought matte screens might have been one of the strain causes (which is why I was leaning towards glossy recently). This doesn't seem to be the case since it feels even better now…

However, that might be because the matte coating is REALLY good. I don't see any rainbowing or strange mesh patterns. No shimmer!! (Totally different from the low quality fuzzy one on the LP140WF5-SPB3 which made me feel weird even when I looked at it turned off)

Best way I can describe the coating is that it feels like the older "paper-like" matte screens in Windows XP-era laptops or mid-2000s matte flat-screen TVs

Also, the IPS viewing angles and uniformity is great, it doesn't have that weird "moving black stripe that follows your head" thing at all (that so many modern IPS panels seem to have).

I'm honestly starting to think, 90% chance, that this is the same exact panel and revision as the one in my original "strain-free" Yoga13 (with the only difference being modern eDP support!). Colors are literally IDENTICAL, I know these specific shades of green and blue by heart.

Still no strain

If it stays like this, this is 100% the most promising screen I've tried yet -- if that's the case, I'm actually going to reccommend buying this panel instead of trying to find my exact "obscure" Yoga13 revision

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs BTW, here's the exact seller I bought this screen from (when I bought it they offered 90-day returns, but now looks like it's 14-day instead)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs BTW even the BIOS on this SPB1 panel feels way better than the previous 3 panels swapped into the ThinkPad (and better than the weird one in the second Yoga)

So there is certainly some big improvement at the panel level since it's a still a UHD 620 "driving it" but it remains significantly better

For example, I don't feel disoriented after moving the selection up or down in the BIOS. Usually only my first Yoga13 and a few old TN monitors feel like this for me. (on the other hand, this was first thing I noticed was wrong on the second Yoga13😂)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

So far have read longer documents, frequent note taking, some coding / terminal, browsed social media, watched videos, did some music production all on the LG LP133WD2-SPB1, still connected to my T480. I am impressed.

Especially surprised by coding, felt so similar to coding on my safe screen and didn't get brain fog at all. Usually coding has a totally different "heavy" kind of feel on "strainy" screens but not here.

The muted colors + higher than average brightness combo is so good. It's simultaneously crisp and bright yet whites aren't blinding at all.

I've viewed many images on the panel with strange distorted perspectives or high contrast between blurry and clear areas, the type that usually causes immediate disorientation or eye pain on strainy screens — they were fine here, I could move my cursor around them and keep the image AND cursor in focus at the same time. Generally felt very flat paper-like in the best way.

For example, a dark-color large pillar in a photo felt like pretty much the same flat depth as the panel bezel. Very few screens achieve this for me.

Just a few more days before I can confidently give an ultimate verdict.

But I'm actually shocked how good this seems to be.

JTL

macsforme Not only that, but it would be interesting to flash the ROM of the “good” machine to the “bad” machine of the same model, to see if this makes the visual appearance the same.

Also my point

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

JTL Yeah this would be ideal, but I essentially rely on my original Yoga13 because it's one of the only things I KNOW I can be productive on, and even though I've disassembled it in the past it's working too perfectly for me now to not want to accidentally break it

And the strainy one is useless to me, so it's going back, and taking that one apart would almost certainly void the return policy lol

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Just a quick update, even though it was succeeding at the basic stuff, eyes kept getting gradually more abnormally dry/slight burning feeling after each time I used it (not because I used it for too long, because some screens don't do this to me at all and I took frequent breaks too) Was also getting this weird kind of mild but still sharp feeling in corners of eyes that continues to increase in frequency, that makes me think it won't be good in the long run. (even if I tried to get used to it)

So unfortunately I can't personally recommend this panel.

It got close to the threshold but couldn't cross it for me

Also, I watched a longer video on it and couldn't follow it at all, lots of double vision. Was watching through NoMachine and with Basic Display to avoid it applying video processing but still had issues. Then right after I watched it on my good 2012 laptop, same NoMachine client, and it was fine. E-ink Boox Palma I bought this year is fine for videos too, even some OLED TVs I can tolerate — so it's not just because I'm used to my old screen. Was pretty unexpected.

So although it passed a surprising amount of basic tests, some more complex tests are giving me red flags

I have 3 more panels to try — for now, I will stop posting since I don't want to spread misinformation.

I will only follow up if one of them truly works for me lol

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

@evthelegend @photon78s

Big update:

I am now trying two AUO TN panels from 2015 —

One 1600x900 matte (which has surprisingly nice and uniform, but muted colors), and the other 1366x768 glossy (which is a more typical old-school washed-out TN).

These are the best so far by a HUGE margin, wayyyyy better than all of the LG IPS I was previously testing.

I'm already finding them more comfortable than any of my 5 TN external monitors (including both LED and CCFL ones, even the 2005 monitor I have).

There is something VERY different about these TNs I'm trying compared to other TNs I have used.

(For example I saw a newer ThinkPad in the wild recently with a stock 1366x768 "modern TN" — probably from BOE lol — and it was terrible with instant strain. Samsung TN panels are also problematic for me.

But these are nothing like that… my first immediate reaction using these is actually "wow this is comfortable" — the first screens this year where I have reacted this way.)

BTW, I also have issues with AUO IPS (AHVA) panels, but these AUO TNs are totally different from those too.

Two whole days so far of note taking + watching multiple longer videos, writing emails and even some music production on the 1600x900 and was very comfortable.

Honestly some things such as scrolling and reading seem to feel better than my original Yoga 13 which is also something I've never been able to say about a screen before.

I feel like the solution will lie in a TN and not IPS.

Will update again in a few days

photon78s

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Exciting! I'm wondering if we can find a similar solution for the 24-27 inch format perhaps I could just combine multiples of these AUO panels together. The last monitor driver board I used still caused strain for me.

evthelegend

wow this is good, have you been able to find a reason as to why these panels work so much better?

seems to be no correlation as to why some screens do and don't work, very frustrating.

will look more into trying a tn panel as my IPS doesn't seem to be cutting it.

recently came across an old Toshiba running windows 7 so I will connect that to my IPS panel and that will let me know if it is my Mac that is causing symptoms.

also, ordered a BOOX tab ultra C as I need something usable for my job that is becoming increasingly more screen-intensive hopefully the tab ultra can cut it. I don't think there is anything more computer like in the E-ink sector than it unless I were to get a E-ink monitor but those are expensive.

something weird to note, I have been brute forcing through my symptoms and they arent affecting me as much right now but my brain feels very dull.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

evthelegend wow this is good, have you been able to find a reason as to why these panels work so much better?

Seems like a lack of post-processing/sharpening/contrast enhancement/noise reduction "features" within the panel's LCD controller itself.

IMO, color post-processing -- especially types that easily manipulate depth perception like red/blue fringing -- seem to cause way more strain and "brain fog" for me, compared to flicker-related strain (with the exception of classic "strobe-like PWM that's both 'invisible' and intense" which gives me headaches, even in lightbulbs and CRTs.)

BTW, the panels are:

AUO B140RTN03.0 (1600x900 14" TN, Matte, manufactured 2015, revision H/W 6A, F/W 1).
AUO B140XTN02.D (1366x768 14" TN, Glossy, manufactured 2015, currently installed and forgot to write down revision lol).

They are 6-bit but dithering can be disabled with ditherig.exe. Disclaimer: they still have that "mild" PWM (but not strobe-like), and some pixel inversion flicker. But they are so comfortable compared to the other panels I've tried that I'm beginning to think flicker isn't the main issue here.

To install them in Lenovo T480, all I had to do was temporarily disable the battery in BIOS, take off the bezel, unscrew and disconnect the original panel, and screw the new one in.

The only "hard" part was slowly/carefully taking off the bezel the first time because they stick some adhesive to it. (After the first time, it's way easier to remove the bezel!)

Also, I still have Intel UHD drivers disabled even with better panels, if you want to know why, see details here:

I disable UHD 620 drivers in Windows (this means Windows uses Basic Display instead) since Intel drivers definitely can cause "their own issues" too. Even on my "safe" old laptop, the screen still gets worse with 2015-era drivers enabled -- there is "extra" colors I can see around sharp edges, and text looks fuzzier.

This is a different problem, unrelated to the LCD, that will take more effort to solve (for example, compiling custom Linux drivers which AFAIK no one has "seriously" done yet).

I agree with the older threads about "Intel-related" issues starting a LONG time ago with HD Graphics 4000 and Version 9 drivers -- still not fixed today.

Fortunately, laptops are fast enough now where scrolling, watching HD videos, running VMs, and having many browser tabs open is still smooth with Basic Display drivers. (You can also temporarily enable drivers to adjust brightness or enter sleep mode, and disable them after.)

There are also AMD Ryzen laptops with easily-swappable LCD like Lenovo T495, but I have no idea whether AMD graphics is better or worse. The only thing I know is that these panels are working on Lenovo T480 with Windows 10 v1809 + Intel drivers disabled.

I have a feeling newer/supported Windows 10 versions like 21H2 have a good chance of working with these panels too -- at least with drivers disabled -- unsure about Windows 11 though.

Here's why I think the AUO TN panels are working:

Many images that include lots of dense, high-contrast lines seem to be very "pure" in the area "around" the lines -- instead of feeling like all of the lines are "sticking my eyes to them" or have bluish or reddish glows/halos/shadows around them.

Another way to explain it is that looking at a part of the screen "feels the same" regardless if there's a totally blank space there, or if there's a really "complex" thing there.

(Whereas on "bad" screens, it is painful to look at any part of the screen where there is "complex information-dense content" or a "large blurry/stretched/distorted image", and the "painful areas" actually change depending on the onscreen content. That LG IPS I was "initially optimistic about" failed because it had this issue).

A test I did that I am VERY satisfied with, and has actually pushed these panels to the point I actually might recommend them, is that I set some "complex" images as my wallpaper like engineering diagrams or intricate architecture, and they didn't "distract me" from my work -- it felt the same as setting a simple wallpaper. Not even my original Lenovo Yoga can do this, so this is actually an improvement to my "safe screen".

I actually feel so freed by this, since it seems like I can finally use any wallpaper I want instead of needing to set a "solid color background" to focus.

(I originally thought this was purely because my brain needed less distractions and more simplicity, but again this seems to be actually caused by the screen itself.)

evthelegend will look more into trying a tn panel as my IPS doesn't seem to be cutting it.

TNs have more potential yes, but it doesn't seem like just TN alone is what makes these good.

As I mentioned, I have five old TN monitors and all of them are some degree "unusable" or "strainy" to me -- even one from 2005. Some are OK for "basic computer use", but immediately start messing with my brain once I start reading e.g. a textbook, a code file, or complex diagrams. Even if they're connected to an old computer.

Plus, I've tried old MacBooks with TN panels and they didn't work for me (even when running Windows/Linux). 2008 MBP had no PWM, but looked blurry and felt brain fog/tiredness/disorientation when reading documents. 2009 MBP was at least readable and "clear", but had super intense "strobe PWM" even at max brightness, in addition to some other weird color processing, and the strain was too painful to continue using it.

So these AUO TN laptop panels are super unique for me. For 4 days now I have been able to use them AND feel comfortable using them. And with some content, even more comfortable than my "safe screen" is(!) And they are connected to a semi-modern laptop. These are the first panels I've tried where, so far, I'm not feeling the urge to go back to my "safe screen".

evthelegend BOOX tab ultra C

Something to check after getting Tab Ultra is whether the virtual touch keyboard is smooth or is constantly missing keypresses. On my Ultra, the touch screen is super inaccurate even after installing third-party keyboards like SwiftKey.

Because of this, the Ultra is less useful for me than I wanted since I have to carry around an external keyboard to type anything. Also, the official magnetic keyboard disconnects constantly and can't be reliably used on surfaces that aren't totally flat like my lap.

IMO, if your Ultra ends up having the same issue, I'd suggest getting a Palma instead since my Palma has great touch accuracy. Using SwiftKey, I can type on Palma just as fast as my phone with no typos. (Or try one of their other tablets with pen support if you need that -- no idea about touch accuracy on those though)

Despite the smaller screen, the Palma is wayyyyy more useful for me since I can actually type on the touchscreen

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs AUO B140RTN03.0 (1600x900 14" TN, Matte, manufactured 2015, revision H/W 6A, F/W 1).

I switched back to the AUO 1600x900 TN, seems like it's even better than the 1366 TN.

It's sometimes harder to look at the left side of the screen on the 1366 TN which implies it's not perfect. But on the 1600 TN, it's so easy that it's actually the most comfortable I've ever felt looking at the left edge of a screen(!)

(this is awesome since the 1600 has way better image quality and viewing angles. The 1366 constantly reminds me that it's an old TN. But this one — aside from the washed out colors/black which is a good thing IMO — is uniform and "accurate" enough where it feels like I'm "not missing out on anything".)

So far, I am enjoying my time with this screen so much, I am so productive on this. Read some long documents today + heavy note taking + switching back and forth between apps constantly + some graphic design & image editing + organizing files + doing all of this in color(!!) and I swear I'm at the point where I'm starting to think this is BETTER than my old "safe screen".

The only modifications I am using are Basic Display driver (to rule out Intel problems that aren't the LCD's fault), ditherig.exe, and a screen dimmer preset in NegativeScreen since I have the backlight at 100%.

There are some things my "safe screen" still has problems with, that are actually comfortable on this AUO TN, to the point I actually don't want to go back to my old screen lol. Reading & scrolling is SO relaxing on this panel

I can't believe I'm finally using a "modern laptop" directly — not screen sharing in from an old device — and feel just as comfortable, if not MORE comfortable.

Also, unless e.g. newer Intel graphics like Iris XE cause extra issues (i.e. more than UHD 620) "independently of the panel" even when drivers are turned off, this solution might possibly work on even NEWER laptops too, as long as the laptop has a user-replaceable 16:9 14" eDP screen.

In addition, the panel can still be connected and work with laptops with a larger screen size or 16:10 aspect ratio -- it would just require a more creative solution like a 3D printed custom bezel to get it to stick.

(For example, that one 13" screen I was trying before this one connected totally fine to my 14" laptop, I just had to tape it to the bezel as a makeshift way to test it LOL.)

I can see "pixel inversion checkerboard flicker" every now and then but I don't "feel" it at all. It's not causing strain for me. I don't see any dithering (after launching ditherig.exe), only inversion flicker.

IMO the presence of LCD inversion and "mild" PWM here shouldn't impact a decision on whether to try this panel — because despite this it's more comfortable than SO many screens I've tried. (unless someone has something serious like "directly flicker-induced seizures" etc., which I don't)

It also feels more stable than my old "safe screen".

If it remains this good until Monday I will recommend the AUO B140RTN03.0 TN

miripump

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

it's probably the shit auo TN viewing angles that makes it comfortable because it simulates positive spherical aberration where the center is brighter/in focus compared to the peripheral which allows the eye to generate micro saccadic motions to scan the entire screen rather then having to strain and move the eyes themselves which happens with a wide viewing angle IPS/OLED. the 'perfect viewing angles' makes you lose the contrast in depth between focal and peripheral. remember, concave and flat surfaces rarely exist in nature, the human face is spherical etc

I can tolerate the latest 540hz AUO TNs cause the viewing angle is so shit. I can also semi tolerate oleds if I wear a multifocal contact (coopervision misight) that has a pinhole design.

have you viewed a convex commercial display monitor in person before? it has the same effect but even better

ps: (Whereas on "bad" screens, it is painful to look at any part of the screen where there is "complex information-dense content" or a "large blurry/stretched/distorted image", and the "painful areas" actually change depending on the onscreen content. That LG IPS I was "initially optimistic about" failed because it had this issue). sounds like textbook accommodative lead where the person can only 'scan' rather then 'read' since the eyes are 'stuck' due to lack of light stimulus

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

photon78s Yep I've been using it even longer today, many hours straight, and I think it's safe to say at this point that the AUO 303E (2015, H/W 6A, F/W 1) is even more comfortable than my old "safe screen". Honestly one of the most comfortable screens I've used.

I've been reading tons of stuff on here and it feels so paper-like

Can move my eyes to all corners of the screen and I haven't been feeling any "friction" or "scratchiness" in the movement, it's so smooth

And when I scroll it doesn't feel like my eyes are being "pulled" by the motion of the scrolling -- my eyes just stay right in the center of the screen and the scrolling happens "around" it, and I don't feel dizzy

Also, when there are many contrasting items on screen, like a dark gray dialog with washed-out gray text, opening in front of a blue window with white text, with a light mode window on the side, I don't feel overwhelmed, they somehow do not "clash" with each other and I can focus on all of them comfortably at the same time

Not even my safe screen was perfect with this, so I am super impressed by this panel

simplex

photon78s similar solution for the 24-27 inch format

you need example of safe 23.8" panel?

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Been trying 50% backlight on AUO303E now for a few hours (AKA default backlight when booted without Intel drivers, before using the workaround where you quickly toggle drivers on/off to get 100% backlight with Basic Display)

Also good. Still continues to impress me compared to 90% of screens I've used

I slightly prefer 100% backlight + software dimmer for reading (text is still way more than comfortable enough to read at 50% too), but it's good to know that 50% also works too. Since there's some times I prefer the lower hardware backlight, like when working in "black background" apps to reduce the "gray" tint of black

Interestingly, even though the screen has "mild" PWM (even at max backlight, but mild enough to not affect me at all), the intensity of the flicker on camera doesn't seem to increase much at 50% backlight?

So there's probably something different about the PWM method here that makes it not bother me, because yeah IMO the presence of flicker doesn't matter here

This screen is the first time I've ever been able to comfortably move on from my old laptop for entire days of work AND legitimately feels better to read than my old laptop

photon78s

simplex

Yes, please. Ideally portable but not deal breaking. I know their is a 22 inch 2k portable monitor form uperfect but of unknown panel details. As you know, I've tested multiple monitors and panels over the past year but lost almost everything in listed in that discussion due to a lithium battery fire (very bad stuff) but that is off-topic on this forum. So I'm basically starting fresh.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

@evthelegend

1 week update:

AUO B140RTN03.0 + ThinkPad T480 (UHD 620) + ditherig + Basic Display Driver is still working great!

I've been able to transfer my general workflow (schoolwork, note-taking, writing a few longer documents, some photo editing, web browsing, responding to emails, texting, reading long PDFs & articles, music production, watching long videos, NoMachine to remotely use Mac apps) from my old "safe screen" to this LCD very smoothly.

I'm consistently NOT getting strained!

I literally haven't touched my old laptop in a week. First time I've EVER been able to say this.

~~The only thing I haven't tried yet is long coding sessions, but I've edited some small code files and it felt nice.~~

Edit: tried coding on it now (via NoMachine into an M1 Mac) and it's also very comfy. With colorful highlighting too! Only thing I had to "go out of my way" for was modifying my editor theme to increase contrast since it's a TN. If someone wants the VSCode appearance settings I'm using let me know!

In fact there is even an improvement for anything involving motion (scrolling is way better and doesn't cause any dizziness on this screen) and any images with high contrast/"strange perspectives" (which don't cause any weird "additional" strain, which was still actually somewhat of an issue on my old safe screen).

@jordan @photon78s Since I wasn't able to find an second identical safe laptop with the same screen, I actually recommend this screen more now, as it seems much more likely to be reproducible + is better in some ways!

The only noticeable flaws IMO are:

pixel inversion: it's sometimes visible, especially in the top right corner for some reason, but I can read text totally fine on this panel so I don't think it's much of an issue. However, sometimes flickering can be seen in dense line/checkerboard patterns. (Overall though, I experience much LESS "pattern glare" on this LCD compared to most screens, so "stronger than usual pixel inversion" here is an OK compromise IMO).
TN white color: I've noticed that with (all??) TNs, the very brightest shades of white are treated differently than other colors -- if you look at the screen from above, they uniquely "invert" to a strange "blue" shade instead of just washing out like other grays. I've noticed that these whites appear more red and more "harsh" compared to other colors.
Fortunately, there is a precise "cutoff point" where the "weird" whites instantly become "normal" when slightly dimmed. The workaround is software dimming, e.g. with NegativeScreen app. (My favorite color adjustment app since it avoids possible "side effects" of color profiles by using Windows Magnification API instead).
100% backlight is better: Although it's not bad at all at 50% (default backlight on boot) I did notice a slight headache each time I tried 50% that simply doesn't happen if I switch to 100%. Doesn't change based on content onscreen, so probably PWM-related. (Interestingly, camera still detects mild flicker at 100%, but in that case the depth is small enough to not "feel"/bother me at all and IMO shouldn't be a dealbreaker for most.)
I can only confirm it's comfortable with Basic Display Driver. (The only time I enable Intel is a quick toggle on/off to raise backlight to 100% after reboots) — YMMV whether it stays good or not with Intel UHD drivers enabled — I won't be testing this

Here are custom NegativeScreen presets I created to prevent the TN white color issue:

TN-Dim=
{ 0.9,  0,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0, 0.9,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0, 0.9,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-MoreDim=
{ 0.8,  0,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0, 0.8,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0, 0.8,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-ExtraDim=
{ 0.6,  0,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0, 0.6,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0, 0.6,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-Dim-Grayscale=
{ 0.3,  0.3,  0.3,  0,  0 }
{  0.3, 0.3,  0.3,  0,  0 }
{  0.3,  0.3, 0.3,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-MoreDim-Grayscale=
{ 0.266,  0.266,  0.266,  0,  0 }
{  0.266, 0.266,  0.266,  0,  0 }
{  0.266,  0.266, 0.266,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-ExtraDim-Grayscale=
{  0.2,  0.2,  0.2,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.2,  0.2,  0.2,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.2,  0.2,  0.2,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0 }

TN-Dim-Red=
{  0.3,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.6,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.1,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0,  0.0 }
{  -0.15,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0 }

TN-MoreDim-Red=
{  0.3,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.6,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.1,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0,  0.0 }
{  -0.25,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0 }

TN-ExtraDim-Red-LowContrast=
{  0.25,  0,  0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.25,  0,  0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.25,  0,  0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0 }

^ I usually hover around the "MoreDim" and "ExtraDim" presets depending on time of day.

The "red" variants are really useful when I'm reading/writing text for hours, since they eliminate subpixels, giving a true "physically grayscale" screen

P.S. I'm using Firefox 115.12.0 ESR on Windows (ClearType enabled with default settings). Using latest Chrome on the Mac NoMachine server (Mac font smoothing disabled). IMO these combos = best text rendering per each platform

simplex

photon78s Yes, please

m238hvn01.0 - very safe, 6bit+FRC

miripump

you want high blue light when you're on CCFL, or stuff like HID lamp projectors

that's probably the last 20% for you. I mean there are papers from the 60s of people getting eyestrain when they work under sodium vapor lighting or dark rooms, or purposely induced eye strain in studies with amber filter sunglasses or reading on orange reddish print paper.

blue light is only a problem when its emitted by LEDs that have an unnatural polar radiation pattern (flat planar emittance). light in nature is either blackbody (the sun, candle, filament bulbs) or fluorescence (firefly, coral reefs, HID and CCFL) that have a diverging 360 degree radiation pattern from the source. blue light bends the most so its the most sensitive to directionality (see plus and minus lenses and chromatic aberration)

blue light is used to treat brain fog and fatigue and has been for a very long time. blue tinted glasses and irlen lenses, syntonics etc. osram and phillips made 8000/12000/16000k tubes to boost mood and productivity as well as stimulate cognition in the elderly. the reason they stopped is because they know it won't work as well with LEDs as well as the current narrative surrounding blue light

so crank up that blue light and stop wearing blockers and enjoy the CCFL. you're also likely someone who suffers from 'accommodative lead' related physical eyestrain. LED light doesn't stimulate accommodation well, which is the reason why phoropter machines for refraction all use halogen light sources. in fact LED light is actually relaxing for someone who has the opposite type of eye strain called 'accommodative lag'.

ps: feeling better when you're further from the screen means that the PPI is likely too low for you up close to stimulate accommodation (spatial frequency stimulates the eyes to focus). maybe try a smaller p2211h or even 12/15" laptops.

personally I use a custom CCFL thinkpad with modern parts, have a stockpile of AW2310's and use blue filtered halogen or 14/20k metal halides for general illumination to really get into the zone at my workstation

you can also try lowering the sharpness setting and also reducing the amount of red light in your custom RGB settings. if I'm not mistaken there's quite a large spike due to the type of red phosphors used

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