screen-Induced Brain Fog & Eyestrain – CCFL + Blue Light Glasses Seem to Help

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Just a quick update, even though it was succeeding at the basic stuff, eyes kept getting gradually more abnormally dry/slight burning feeling after each time I used it (not because I used it for too long, because some screens don't do this to me at all and I took frequent breaks too) Was also getting this weird kind of mild but still sharp feeling in corners of eyes that continues to increase in frequency, that makes me think it won't be good in the long run. (even if I tried to get used to it)

So unfortunately I can't personally recommend this panel.

It got close to the threshold but couldn't cross it for me

Also, I watched a longer video on it and couldn't follow it at all, lots of double vision. Was watching through NoMachine and with Basic Display to avoid it applying video processing but still had issues. Then right after I watched it on my good 2012 laptop, same NoMachine client, and it was fine. E-ink Boox Palma I bought this year is fine for videos too, even some OLED TVs I can tolerate — so it's not just because I'm used to my old screen. Was pretty unexpected.

So although it passed a surprising amount of basic tests, some more complex tests are giving me red flags

I have 3 more panels to try — for now, I will stop posting since I don't want to spread misinformation.

I will only follow up if one of them truly works for me lol

@evthelegend @photon78s

Big update:

I am now trying two AUO TN panels from 2015 —

One 1600x900 matte (which has surprisingly nice and uniform, but muted colors), and the other 1366x768 glossy (which is a more typical old-school washed-out TN).

These are the best so far by a HUGE margin, wayyyyy better than all of the LG IPS I was previously testing.

I'm already finding them more comfortable than any of my 5 TN external monitors (including both LED and CCFL ones, even the 2005 monitor I have).

There is something VERY different about these TNs I'm trying compared to other TNs I have used.

(For example I saw a newer ThinkPad in the wild recently with a stock 1366x768 "modern TN" — probably from BOE lol — and it was terrible with instant strain. Samsung TN panels are also problematic for me.

But these are nothing like that… my first immediate reaction using these is actually "wow this is comfortable" — the first screens this year where I have reacted this way.)

BTW, I also have issues with AUO IPS (AHVA) panels, but these AUO TNs are totally different from those too.

Two whole days so far of note taking + watching multiple longer videos, writing emails and even some music production on the 1600x900 and was very comfortable.

Honestly some things such as scrolling and reading seem to feel better than my original Yoga 13 which is also something I've never been able to say about a screen before.

I feel like the solution will lie in a TN and not IPS.

Will update again in a few days

evthelegend wow this is good, have you been able to find a reason as to why these panels work so much better?

Seems like a lack of post-processing/sharpening/contrast enhancement/noise reduction "features" within the panel's LCD controller itself.

IMO, color post-processing -- especially types that easily manipulate depth perception like red/blue fringing -- seem to cause way more strain and "brain fog" for me, compared to flicker-related strain (with the exception of classic "strobe-like PWM that's both 'invisible' and intense" which gives me headaches, even in lightbulbs and CRTs.)

BTW, the panels are:

• AUO B140RTN03.0 (1600x900 14" TN, Matte, manufactured 2015, revision H/W 6A, F/W 1).

• AUO B140XTN02.D (1366x768 14" TN, Glossy, manufactured 2015, currently installed and forgot to write down revision lol).

They are 6-bit but dithering can be disabled with ditherig.exe. Disclaimer: they still have that "mild" PWM (but not strobe-like), and some pixel inversion flicker. But they are so comfortable compared to the other panels I've tried that I'm beginning to think flicker isn't the main issue here.

To install them in Lenovo T480, all I had to do was temporarily disable the battery in BIOS, take off the bezel, unscrew and disconnect the original panel, and screw the new one in.

The only "hard" part was slowly/carefully taking off the bezel the first time because they stick some adhesive to it. (After the first time, it's way easier to remove the bezel!)

Also, I still have Intel UHD drivers disabled even with better panels, if you want to know why, see details here:

Here's why I think the AUO TN panels are working:

Many images that include lots of dense, high-contrast lines seem to be very "pure" in the area "around" the lines -- instead of feeling like all of the lines are "sticking my eyes to them" or have bluish or reddish glows/halos/shadows around them.

Another way to explain it is that looking at a part of the screen "feels the same" regardless if there's a totally blank space there, or if there's a really "complex" thing there.

(Whereas on "bad" screens, it is painful to look at any part of the screen where there is "complex information-dense content" or a "large blurry/stretched/distorted image", and the "painful areas" actually change depending on the onscreen content. That LG IPS I was "initially optimistic about" failed because it had this issue).

A test I did that I am VERY satisfied with, and has actually pushed these panels to the point I actually might recommend them, is that I set some "complex" images as my wallpaper like engineering diagrams or intricate architecture, and they didn't "distract me" from my work -- it felt the same as setting a simple wallpaper. Not even my original Lenovo Yoga can do this, so this is actually an improvement to my "safe screen".

I actually feel so freed by this, since it seems like I can finally use any wallpaper I want instead of needing to set a "solid color background" to focus.

(I originally thought this was purely because my brain needed less distractions and more simplicity, but again this seems to be actually caused by the screen itself.)

evthelegend will look more into trying a tn panel as my IPS doesn't seem to be cutting it.

TNs have more potential yes, but it doesn't seem like just TN alone is what makes these good.

As I mentioned, I have five old TN monitors and all of them are some degree "unusable" or "strainy" to me -- even one from 2005. Some are OK for "basic computer use", but immediately start messing with my brain once I start reading e.g. a textbook, a code file, or complex diagrams. Even if they're connected to an old computer.

Plus, I've tried old MacBooks with TN panels and they didn't work for me (even when running Windows/Linux). 2008 MBP had no PWM, but looked blurry and felt brain fog/tiredness/disorientation when reading documents. 2009 MBP was at least readable and "clear", but had super intense "strobe PWM" even at max brightness, in addition to some other weird color processing, and the strain was too painful to continue using it.

So these AUO TN laptop panels are super unique for me. For 4 days now I have been able to use them AND feel comfortable using them. And with some content, even more comfortable than my "safe screen" is(!) And they are connected to a semi-modern laptop. These are the first panels I've tried where, so far, I'm not feeling the urge to go back to my "safe screen".

evthelegend BOOX tab ultra C

Something to check after getting Tab Ultra is whether the virtual touch keyboard is smooth or is constantly missing keypresses. On my Ultra, the touch screen is super inaccurate even after installing third-party keyboards like SwiftKey.

Because of this, the Ultra is less useful for me than I wanted since I have to carry around an external keyboard to type anything. Also, the official magnetic keyboard disconnects constantly and can't be reliably used on surfaces that aren't totally flat like my lap.

IMO, if your Ultra ends up having the same issue, I'd suggest getting a Palma instead since my Palma has great touch accuracy. Using SwiftKey, I can type on Palma just as fast as my phone with no typos. (Or try one of their other tablets with pen support if you need that -- no idea about touch accuracy on those though)

Despite the smaller screen, the Palma is wayyyyy more useful for me since I can actually type on the touchscreen

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs AUO B140RTN03.0 (1600x900 14" TN, Matte, manufactured 2015, revision H/W 6A, F/W 1).

I switched back to the AUO 1600x900 TN, seems like it's even better than the 1366 TN.

It's sometimes harder to look at the left side of the screen on the 1366 TN which implies it's not perfect. But on the 1600 TN, it's so easy that it's actually the most comfortable I've ever felt looking at the left edge of a screen(!)

(this is awesome since the 1600 has way better image quality and viewing angles. The 1366 constantly reminds me that it's an old TN. But this one — aside from the washed out colors/black which is a good thing IMO — is uniform and "accurate" enough where it feels like I'm "not missing out on anything".)

So far, I am enjoying my time with this screen so much, I am so productive on this. Read some long documents today + heavy note taking + switching back and forth between apps constantly + some graphic design & image editing + organizing files + doing all of this in color(!!) and I swear I'm at the point where I'm starting to think this is BETTER than my old "safe screen".

The only modifications I am using are Basic Display driver (to rule out Intel problems that aren't the LCD's fault), ditherig.exe, and a screen dimmer preset in NegativeScreen since I have the backlight at 100%.

There are some things my "safe screen" still has problems with, that are actually comfortable on this AUO TN, to the point I actually don't want to go back to my old screen lol. Reading & scrolling is SO relaxing on this panel

I can't believe I'm finally using a "modern laptop" directly — not screen sharing in from an old device — and feel just as comfortable, if not MORE comfortable.

Also, unless e.g. newer Intel graphics like Iris XE cause extra issues (i.e. more than UHD 620) "independently of the panel" even when drivers are turned off, this solution might possibly work on even NEWER laptops too, as long as the laptop has a user-replaceable 16:9 14" eDP screen.

In addition, the panel can still be connected and work with laptops with a larger screen size or 16:10 aspect ratio -- it would just require a more creative solution like a 3D printed custom bezel to get it to stick.

(For example, that one 13" screen I was trying before this one connected totally fine to my 14" laptop, I just had to tape it to the bezel as a makeshift way to test it LOL.)

I can see "pixel inversion checkerboard flicker" every now and then but I don't "feel" it at all. It's not causing strain for me. I don't see any dithering (after launching ditherig.exe), only inversion flicker.

IMO the presence of LCD inversion and "mild" PWM here shouldn't impact a decision on whether to try this panel — because despite this it's more comfortable than SO many screens I've tried. (unless someone has something serious like "directly flicker-induced seizures" etc., which I don't)

It also feels more stable than my old "safe screen".

If it remains this good until Monday I will recommend the AUO B140RTN03.0 TN

photon78s Yep I've been using it even longer today, many hours straight, and I think it's safe to say at this point that the AUO 303E (2015, H/W 6A, F/W 1) is even more comfortable than my old "safe screen". Honestly one of the most comfortable screens I've used.

I've been reading tons of stuff on here and it feels so paper-like

Can move my eyes to all corners of the screen and I haven't been feeling any "friction" or "scratchiness" in the movement, it's so smooth

And when I scroll it doesn't feel like my eyes are being "pulled" by the motion of the scrolling -- my eyes just stay right in the center of the screen and the scrolling happens "around" it, and I don't feel dizzy

Also, when there are many contrasting items on screen, like a dark gray dialog with washed-out gray text, opening in front of a blue window with white text, with a light mode window on the side, I don't feel overwhelmed, they somehow do not "clash" with each other and I can focus on all of them comfortably at the same time

Not even my safe screen was perfect with this, so I am super impressed by this panel

photon78s similar solution for the 24-27 inch format

you need example of safe 23.8" panel?

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Been trying 50% backlight on AUO303E now for a few hours (AKA default backlight when booted without Intel drivers, before using the workaround where you quickly toggle drivers on/off to get 100% backlight with Basic Display)

Also good. Still continues to impress me compared to 90% of screens I've used

I slightly prefer 100% backlight + software dimmer for reading (text is still way more than comfortable enough to read at 50% too), but it's good to know that 50% also works too. Since there's some times I prefer the lower hardware backlight, like when working in "black background" apps to reduce the "gray" tint of black

Interestingly, even though the screen has "mild" PWM (even at max backlight, but mild enough to not affect me at all), the intensity of the flicker on camera doesn't seem to increase much at 50% backlight?

So there's probably something different about the PWM method here that makes it not bother me, because yeah IMO the presence of flicker doesn't matter here

This screen is the first time I've ever been able to comfortably move on from my old laptop for entire days of work AND legitimately feels better to read than my old laptop

@evthelegend

1 week update:

AUO B140RTN03.0 + ThinkPad T480 (UHD 620) + ditherig + Basic Display Driver is still working great!

I've been able to transfer my general workflow (schoolwork, note-taking, writing a few longer documents, some photo editing, web browsing, responding to emails, texting, reading long PDFs & articles, music production, watching long videos, NoMachine to remotely use Mac apps) from my old "safe screen" to this LCD very smoothly.

I'm consistently NOT getting strained!

I literally haven't touched my old laptop in a week. First time I've EVER been able to say this.

The only thing I haven't tried yet is long coding sessions, but I've edited some small code files and it felt nice.

Edit: tried coding on it now (via NoMachine into an M1 Mac) and it's also very comfy. With colorful highlighting too! Only thing I had to "go out of my way" for was modifying my editor theme to increase contrast since it's a TN. If someone wants the VSCode appearance settings I'm using let me know!

In fact there is even an improvement for anything involving motion (scrolling is way better and doesn't cause any dizziness on this screen) and any images with high contrast/"strange perspectives" (which don't cause any weird "additional" strain, which was still actually somewhat of an issue on my old safe screen).

@jordan @photon78s Since I wasn't able to find an second identical safe laptop with the same screen, I actually recommend this screen more now, as it seems much more likely to be reproducible + is better in some ways!

The only noticeable flaws IMO are:

• pixel inversion: it's sometimes visible, especially in the top right corner for some reason, but I can read text totally fine on this panel so I don't think it's much of an issue. However, sometimes flickering can be seen in dense line/checkerboard patterns. (Overall though, I experience much LESS "pattern glare" on this LCD compared to most screens, so "stronger than usual pixel inversion" here is an OK compromise IMO).

• TN white color: I've noticed that with (all??) TNs, the very brightest shades of white are treated differently than other colors -- if you look at the screen from above, they uniquely "invert" to a strange "blue" shade instead of just washing out like other grays. I've noticed that these whites appear more red and more "harsh" compared to other colors.

• Fortunately, there is a precise "cutoff point" where the "weird" whites instantly become "normal" when slightly dimmed. The workaround is software dimming, e.g. with NegativeScreen app. (My favorite color adjustment app since it avoids possible "side effects" of color profiles by using Windows Magnification API instead).

• 100% backlight is better: Although it's not bad at all at 50% (default backlight on boot) I did notice a slight headache each time I tried 50% that simply doesn't happen if I switch to 100%. Doesn't change based on content onscreen, so probably PWM-related. (Interestingly, camera still detects mild flicker at 100%, but in that case the depth is small enough to not "feel"/bother me at all and IMO shouldn't be a dealbreaker for most.)

• I can only confirm it's comfortable with Basic Display Driver. (The only time I enable Intel is a quick toggle on/off to raise backlight to 100% after reboots) — YMMV whether it stays good or not with Intel UHD drivers enabled — I won't be testing this

Here are custom NegativeScreen presets I created to prevent the TN white color issue:

TN-Dim=
{ 0.9,  0,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0, 0.9,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0, 0.9,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-MoreDim=
{ 0.8,  0,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0, 0.8,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0, 0.8,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-ExtraDim=
{ 0.6,  0,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0, 0.6,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0, 0.6,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-Dim-Grayscale=
{ 0.3,  0.3,  0.3,  0,  0 }
{  0.3, 0.3,  0.3,  0,  0 }
{  0.3,  0.3, 0.3,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-MoreDim-Grayscale=
{ 0.266,  0.266,  0.266,  0,  0 }
{  0.266, 0.266,  0.266,  0,  0 }
{  0.266,  0.266, 0.266,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-ExtraDim-Grayscale=
{  0.2,  0.2,  0.2,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.2,  0.2,  0.2,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.2,  0.2,  0.2,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0 }

TN-Dim-Red=
{  0.3,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.6,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.1,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0,  0.0 }
{  -0.15,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0 }

TN-MoreDim-Red=
{  0.3,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.6,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.1,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0,  0.0 }
{  -0.25,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0 }

TN-ExtraDim-Red-LowContrast=
{  0.25,  0,  0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.25,  0,  0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.25,  0,  0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0 }

^ I usually hover around the "MoreDim" and "ExtraDim" presets depending on time of day.

The "red" variants are really useful when I'm reading/writing text for hours, since they eliminate subpixels, giving a true "physically grayscale" screen

P.S. I'm using Firefox 115.12.0 ESR on Windows (ClearType enabled with default settings). Using latest Chrome on the Mac NoMachine server (Mac font smoothing disabled). IMO these combos = best text rendering per each platform

@evthelegend @jordan

FYI — I bought a second AUO303E panel that was manufactured in "18th week of 2018" instead of "29th week of 2015" like my first one. The 2018 one is different.

The 2015 one is still working very well for me on Windows 10 with Basic Display Adapter for a few weeks now (at this point I've entirely switched to it as my main display!)

However, the 2018 AUO303E (which I tried on the exact same computer) has slightly more "intense" colors to my eyes, the sense of motion/response times feels "floaty" while scrolling and sometimes makes me dizzy (which isn't an issue at ALL on the 2015 one!!) and I had to be very close to it in order to read small print -- unlike the 2015 AUO303E where I can read very clearly at a distance.

So there's definitely something wrong with the 2018 version. I felt kind of spaced out/disoriented after using it for a while and the shadows around windows looked way more intense or "contrast enhanced"…

I returned to the "2015 version", and it has none of those issues (and remains one of the best panels I've found to this day!!)

But (surprisingly) I can't recommend the "2018 version". The 2018 panel feels like a totally different LCD despite having same H/W F/W numbers and same panel ID.

If you want to try this panel, I still heavily recommend based on my great experience with the first one I bought!

However, you should ensure you are buying a version manufactured [at or before 15/29] based on the sticker -- and that you can return it if needed (e.g. to try another one from a different year).

Both are "H/W 6A" and "F/W 1".

reaganry Nope. The 2015 version of AUO303E is still working great though. One of the best screens I've ever used, I knew there was something "different" about it the first time it powered on.

And it got even better than it already was, after disabling Intel drivers, using ditherig.exe, setting it to 100% backlight and 40hz mode (important!), and using NegativeScreen to fix the "TN white color" issue as I mentioned earlier. Set the backlight and framerate by toggling drivers on, making the changes, then toggling back off.

And, unexpectedly, even better yet again when dual booting into 2015 LTSB to avoid the "composition layers" issues that started with 1607 (I use 2015 LTSB as a "thin client" OS basically since I only have NoMachine and RealVNC installed on it).

There was a very subtle "mesh pattern" I noticed on the screen while running newer versions even with Basic Display, especially on solid color backgrounds, that vanished on 2015 LTSB. It was something caused by Windows, different from dithering (since it's not visible on 2015 LTSB even when dithering is set to Spatial).

I reboot back into the newer Windows when I'm outdoors and want to use it as a standalone laptop.

Note that even on my initial setup (newer Windows version, Intel drivers disabled) it's still leagues ahead of other screens and is still "as good as when I started", but since I'm committed to "achieving the most comfortable laptop screen possible", I took it even further and it was able to get even better than that! I already knew it was great when I first got it though.

(However, avoid native Linux, I have NO idea how it does it, but it somehow makes this otherwise fine screen cause strain. There is some weird "contrast enhancement"-like effect that I can notice. The workaround is running a Linux VM within Windows, which works great.)

I kind of use it as "a monitor" since I'm using NoMachine on the T480 to remotely use/view a macOS machine without any strain.

But no, I haven't found any dedicated external monitors that are as good as this (including the 4 old CCFL TNs I own! even the oldest external monitor I have, from 2005, although "kinda" better than a typical modern screen, still causes some strain for me even if connected to "safe hardware")

Note that the "manufactured 2018" variant of AUO303E causes issues even when running with all of these tweaks AKA it has some sort of panel-level issue. Returned that one

It's specifically the "manufactured 2015" AUO303E that's this good

Just one update: even though all my positives about the AUO303E panel still hold true, I actually ended up swapping it for the earlier AUO 1366x768 panel I also discussed: B140XTN02.D (also manufactured 2015)

Initially, I thought the 900p one was better, bu the 768p is actually even more comfortable to me!

The pixel inversion is far less noticeable, and since it's glossy it doesn't have the rainbow/graininess issue that the 900p did (which had a pretty subpar matte coating). Black text contrast is better (in a good way — not too intense)

(It it a little bit worse "color accuracy wise" but that doesn't matter to me)

Also discovered that for both panels, running at 40fps feels even more comfy compared to 60fps

So now I'd say the AUO B140XTN02.D is my top recommendation