screen-Induced Brain Fog & Eyestrain – CCFL + Blue Light Glasses Seem to Help

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Just took off the glossy film and now using the LP133WD2-SPB1 as matte. Still good.

Image now feels even more stable/relaxing.

Surprised actually because I thought matte screens might have been one of the strain causes (which is why I was leaning towards glossy recently). This doesn't seem to be the case since it feels even better now…

However, that might be because the matte coating is REALLY good. I don't see any rainbowing or strange mesh patterns. No shimmer!! (Totally different from the low quality fuzzy one on the LP140WF5-SPB3 which made me feel weird even when I looked at it turned off)

Best way I can describe the coating is that it feels like the older "paper-like" matte screens in Windows XP-era laptops or mid-2000s matte flat-screen TVs

Also, the IPS viewing angles and uniformity is great, it doesn't have that weird "moving black stripe that follows your head" thing at all (that so many modern IPS panels seem to have).

I'm honestly starting to think, 90% chance, that this is the same exact panel and revision as the one in my original "strain-free" Yoga13 (with the only difference being modern eDP support!). Colors are literally IDENTICAL, I know these specific shades of green and blue by heart.

Still no strain

If it stays like this, this is 100% the most promising screen I've tried yet -- if that's the case, I'm actually going to reccommend buying this panel instead of trying to find my exact "obscure" Yoga13 revision

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs BTW even the BIOS on this SPB1 panel feels way better than the previous 3 panels swapped into the ThinkPad (and better than the weird one in the second Yoga)

So there is certainly some big improvement at the panel level since it's a still a UHD 620 "driving it" but it remains significantly better

For example, I don't feel disoriented after moving the selection up or down in the BIOS. Usually only my first Yoga13 and a few old TN monitors feel like this for me. (on the other hand, this was first thing I noticed was wrong on the second Yoga13)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

So far have read longer documents, frequent note taking, some coding / terminal, browsed social media, watched videos, did some music production all on the LG LP133WD2-SPB1, still connected to my T480. I am impressed.

Especially surprised by coding, felt so similar to coding on my safe screen and didn't get brain fog at all. Usually coding has a totally different "heavy" kind of feel on "strainy" screens but not here.

The muted colors + higher than average brightness combo is so good. It's simultaneously crisp and bright yet whites aren't blinding at all.

I've viewed many images on the panel with strange distorted perspectives or high contrast between blurry and clear areas, the type that usually causes immediate disorientation or eye pain on strainy screens — they were fine here, I could move my cursor around them and keep the image AND cursor in focus at the same time. Generally felt very flat paper-like in the best way.

For example, a dark-color large pillar in a photo felt like pretty much the same flat depth as the panel bezel. Very few screens achieve this for me.

Just a few more days before I can confidently give an ultimate verdict.

But I'm actually shocked how good this seems to be.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Just a quick update, even though it was succeeding at the basic stuff, eyes kept getting gradually more abnormally dry/slight burning feeling after each time I used it (not because I used it for too long, because some screens don't do this to me at all and I took frequent breaks too) Was also getting this weird kind of mild but still sharp feeling in corners of eyes that continues to increase in frequency, that makes me think it won't be good in the long run. (even if I tried to get used to it)

So unfortunately I can't personally recommend this panel.

It got close to the threshold but couldn't cross it for me

Also, I watched a longer video on it and couldn't follow it at all, lots of double vision. Was watching through NoMachine and with Basic Display to avoid it applying video processing but still had issues. Then right after I watched it on my good 2012 laptop, same NoMachine client, and it was fine. E-ink Boox Palma I bought this year is fine for videos too, even some OLED TVs I can tolerate — so it's not just because I'm used to my old screen. Was pretty unexpected.

So although it passed a surprising amount of basic tests, some more complex tests are giving me red flags

I have 3 more panels to try — for now, I will stop posting since I don't want to spread misinformation.

I will only follow up if one of them truly works for me lol

@evthelegend @photon78s

Big update:

I am now trying two AUO TN panels from 2015 —

One 1600x900 matte (which has surprisingly nice and uniform, but muted colors), and the other 1366x768 glossy (which is a more typical old-school washed-out TN).

These are the best so far by a HUGE margin, wayyyyy better than all of the LG IPS I was previously testing.

I'm already finding them more comfortable than any of my 5 TN external monitors (including both LED and CCFL ones, even the 2005 monitor I have).

There is something VERY different about these TNs I'm trying compared to other TNs I have used.

(For example I saw a newer ThinkPad in the wild recently with a stock 1366x768 "modern TN" — probably from BOE lol — and it was terrible with instant strain. Samsung TN panels are also problematic for me.

But these are nothing like that… my first immediate reaction using these is actually "wow this is comfortable" — the first screens this year where I have reacted this way.)

BTW, I also have issues with AUO IPS (AHVA) panels, but these AUO TNs are totally different from those too.

Two whole days so far of note taking + watching multiple longer videos, writing emails and even some music production on the 1600x900 and was very comfortable.

Honestly some things such as scrolling and reading seem to feel better than my original Yoga 13 which is also something I've never been able to say about a screen before.

I feel like the solution will lie in a TN and not IPS.

Will update again in a few days

evthelegend wow this is good, have you been able to find a reason as to why these panels work so much better?

Seems like a lack of post-processing/sharpening/contrast enhancement/noise reduction "features" within the panel's LCD controller itself.

IMO, color post-processing -- especially types that easily manipulate depth perception like red/blue fringing -- seem to cause way more strain and "brain fog" for me, compared to flicker-related strain (with the exception of classic "strobe-like PWM that's both 'invisible' and intense" which gives me headaches, even in lightbulbs and CRTs.)

BTW, the panels are:

• AUO B140RTN03.0 (1600x900 14" TN, Matte, manufactured 2015, revision H/W 6A, F/W 1).

• AUO B140XTN02.D (1366x768 14" TN, Glossy, manufactured 2015, currently installed and forgot to write down revision lol).

They are 6-bit but dithering can be disabled with ditherig.exe. Disclaimer: they still have that "mild" PWM (but not strobe-like), and some pixel inversion flicker. But they are so comfortable compared to the other panels I've tried that I'm beginning to think flicker isn't the main issue here.

To install them in Lenovo T480, all I had to do was temporarily disable the battery in BIOS, take off the bezel, unscrew and disconnect the original panel, and screw the new one in.

The only "hard" part was slowly/carefully taking off the bezel the first time because they stick some adhesive to it. (After the first time, it's way easier to remove the bezel!)

Also, I still have Intel UHD drivers disabled even with better panels, if you want to know why, see details here:

Here's why I think the AUO TN panels are working:

Many images that include lots of dense, high-contrast lines seem to be very "pure" in the area "around" the lines -- instead of feeling like all of the lines are "sticking my eyes to them" or have bluish or reddish glows/halos/shadows around them.

Another way to explain it is that looking at a part of the screen "feels the same" regardless if there's a totally blank space there, or if there's a really "complex" thing there.

(Whereas on "bad" screens, it is painful to look at any part of the screen where there is "complex information-dense content" or a "large blurry/stretched/distorted image", and the "painful areas" actually change depending on the onscreen content. That LG IPS I was "initially optimistic about" failed because it had this issue).

A test I did that I am VERY satisfied with, and has actually pushed these panels to the point I actually might recommend them, is that I set some "complex" images as my wallpaper like engineering diagrams or intricate architecture, and they didn't "distract me" from my work -- it felt the same as setting a simple wallpaper. Not even my original Lenovo Yoga can do this, so this is actually an improvement to my "safe screen".

I actually feel so freed by this, since it seems like I can finally use any wallpaper I want instead of needing to set a "solid color background" to focus.

(I originally thought this was purely because my brain needed less distractions and more simplicity, but again this seems to be actually caused by the screen itself.)

evthelegend will look more into trying a tn panel as my IPS doesn't seem to be cutting it.

TNs have more potential yes, but it doesn't seem like just TN alone is what makes these good.

As I mentioned, I have five old TN monitors and all of them are some degree "unusable" or "strainy" to me -- even one from 2005. Some are OK for "basic computer use", but immediately start messing with my brain once I start reading e.g. a textbook, a code file, or complex diagrams. Even if they're connected to an old computer.

Plus, I've tried old MacBooks with TN panels and they didn't work for me (even when running Windows/Linux). 2008 MBP had no PWM, but looked blurry and felt brain fog/tiredness/disorientation when reading documents. 2009 MBP was at least readable and "clear", but had super intense "strobe PWM" even at max brightness, in addition to some other weird color processing, and the strain was too painful to continue using it.

So these AUO TN laptop panels are super unique for me. For 4 days now I have been able to use them AND feel comfortable using them. And with some content, even more comfortable than my "safe screen" is(!) And they are connected to a semi-modern laptop. These are the first panels I've tried where, so far, I'm not feeling the urge to go back to my "safe screen".

evthelegend BOOX tab ultra C

Something to check after getting Tab Ultra is whether the virtual touch keyboard is smooth or is constantly missing keypresses. On my Ultra, the touch screen is super inaccurate even after installing third-party keyboards like SwiftKey.

Because of this, the Ultra is less useful for me than I wanted since I have to carry around an external keyboard to type anything. Also, the official magnetic keyboard disconnects constantly and can't be reliably used on surfaces that aren't totally flat like my lap.

IMO, if your Ultra ends up having the same issue, I'd suggest getting a Palma instead since my Palma has great touch accuracy. Using SwiftKey, I can type on Palma just as fast as my phone with no typos. (Or try one of their other tablets with pen support if you need that -- no idea about touch accuracy on those though)

Despite the smaller screen, the Palma is wayyyyy more useful for me since I can actually type on the touchscreen

photon78s Yep I've been using it even longer today, many hours straight, and I think it's safe to say at this point that the AUO 303E (2015, H/W 6A, F/W 1) is even more comfortable than my old "safe screen". Honestly one of the most comfortable screens I've used.

I've been reading tons of stuff on here and it feels so paper-like

Can move my eyes to all corners of the screen and I haven't been feeling any "friction" or "scratchiness" in the movement, it's so smooth

And when I scroll it doesn't feel like my eyes are being "pulled" by the motion of the scrolling -- my eyes just stay right in the center of the screen and the scrolling happens "around" it, and I don't feel dizzy

Also, when there are many contrasting items on screen, like a dark gray dialog with washed-out gray text, opening in front of a blue window with white text, with a light mode window on the side, I don't feel overwhelmed, they somehow do not "clash" with each other and I can focus on all of them comfortably at the same time

Not even my safe screen was perfect with this, so I am super impressed by this panel

photon78s similar solution for the 24-27 inch format

you need example of safe 23.8" panel?

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Been trying 50% backlight on AUO303E now for a few hours (AKA default backlight when booted without Intel drivers, before using the workaround where you quickly toggle drivers on/off to get 100% backlight with Basic Display)

Also good. Still continues to impress me compared to 90% of screens I've used

I slightly prefer 100% backlight + software dimmer for reading (text is still way more than comfortable enough to read at 50% too), but it's good to know that 50% also works too. Since there's some times I prefer the lower hardware backlight, like when working in "black background" apps to reduce the "gray" tint of black

Interestingly, even though the screen has "mild" PWM (even at max backlight, but mild enough to not affect me at all), the intensity of the flicker on camera doesn't seem to increase much at 50% backlight?

So there's probably something different about the PWM method here that makes it not bother me, because yeah IMO the presence of flicker doesn't matter here

This screen is the first time I've ever been able to comfortably move on from my old laptop for entire days of work AND legitimately feels better to read than my old laptop

@evthelegend

1 week update:

AUO B140RTN03.0 + ThinkPad T480 (UHD 620) + ditherig + Basic Display Driver is still working great!

I've been able to transfer my general workflow (schoolwork, note-taking, writing a few longer documents, some photo editing, web browsing, responding to emails, texting, reading long PDFs & articles, music production, watching long videos, NoMachine to remotely use Mac apps) from my old "safe screen" to this LCD very smoothly.

I'm consistently NOT getting strained!

I literally haven't touched my old laptop in a week. First time I've EVER been able to say this.

The only thing I haven't tried yet is long coding sessions, but I've edited some small code files and it felt nice.

Edit: tried coding on it now (via NoMachine into an M1 Mac) and it's also very comfy. With colorful highlighting too! Only thing I had to "go out of my way" for was modifying my editor theme to increase contrast since it's a TN. If someone wants the VSCode appearance settings I'm using let me know!

In fact there is even an improvement for anything involving motion (scrolling is way better and doesn't cause any dizziness on this screen) and any images with high contrast/"strange perspectives" (which don't cause any weird "additional" strain, which was still actually somewhat of an issue on my old safe screen).

@jordan @photon78s Since I wasn't able to find an second identical safe laptop with the same screen, I actually recommend this screen more now, as it seems much more likely to be reproducible + is better in some ways!

The only noticeable flaws IMO are:

• pixel inversion: it's sometimes visible, especially in the top right corner for some reason, but I can read text totally fine on this panel so I don't think it's much of an issue. However, sometimes flickering can be seen in dense line/checkerboard patterns. (Overall though, I experience much LESS "pattern glare" on this LCD compared to most screens, so "stronger than usual pixel inversion" here is an OK compromise IMO).

• TN white color: I've noticed that with (all??) TNs, the very brightest shades of white are treated differently than other colors -- if you look at the screen from above, they uniquely "invert" to a strange "blue" shade instead of just washing out like other grays. I've noticed that these whites appear more red and more "harsh" compared to other colors.

• Fortunately, there is a precise "cutoff point" where the "weird" whites instantly become "normal" when slightly dimmed. The workaround is software dimming, e.g. with NegativeScreen app. (My favorite color adjustment app since it avoids possible "side effects" of color profiles by using Windows Magnification API instead).

• 100% backlight is better: Although it's not bad at all at 50% (default backlight on boot) I did notice a slight headache each time I tried 50% that simply doesn't happen if I switch to 100%. Doesn't change based on content onscreen, so probably PWM-related. (Interestingly, camera still detects mild flicker at 100%, but in that case the depth is small enough to not "feel"/bother me at all and IMO shouldn't be a dealbreaker for most.)

• I can only confirm it's comfortable with Basic Display Driver. (The only time I enable Intel is a quick toggle on/off to raise backlight to 100% after reboots) — YMMV whether it stays good or not with Intel UHD drivers enabled — I won't be testing this

Here are custom NegativeScreen presets I created to prevent the TN white color issue:

TN-Dim=
{ 0.9,  0,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0, 0.9,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0, 0.9,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-MoreDim=
{ 0.8,  0,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0, 0.8,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0, 0.8,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-ExtraDim=
{ 0.6,  0,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0, 0.6,  0,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0, 0.6,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-Dim-Grayscale=
{ 0.3,  0.3,  0.3,  0,  0 }
{  0.3, 0.3,  0.3,  0,  0 }
{  0.3,  0.3, 0.3,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-MoreDim-Grayscale=
{ 0.266,  0.266,  0.266,  0,  0 }
{  0.266, 0.266,  0.266,  0,  0 }
{  0.266,  0.266, 0.266,  0,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  1,  0 }
{  0,  0,  0,  0,  1 }

TN-ExtraDim-Grayscale=
{  0.2,  0.2,  0.2,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.2,  0.2,  0.2,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.2,  0.2,  0.2,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0 }

TN-Dim-Red=
{  0.3,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.6,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.1,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0,  0.0 }
{  -0.15,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0 }

TN-MoreDim-Red=
{  0.3,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.6,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.1,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0,  0.0 }
{  -0.25,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0 }

TN-ExtraDim-Red-LowContrast=
{  0.25,  0,  0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.25,  0,  0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.25,  0,  0,  0.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0,  0.0 }
{  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  0.0,  1.0 }

^ I usually hover around the "MoreDim" and "ExtraDim" presets depending on time of day.

The "red" variants are really useful when I'm reading/writing text for hours, since they eliminate subpixels, giving a true "physically grayscale" screen

P.S. I'm using Firefox 115.12.0 ESR on Windows (ClearType enabled with default settings). Using latest Chrome on the Mac NoMachine server (Mac font smoothing disabled). IMO these combos = best text rendering per each platform

simplex

Yes, please. Ideally portable but not deal breaking. I know their is a 22 inch 2k portable monitor form uperfect but of unknown panel details. As you know, I've tested multiple monitors and panels over the past year but lost almost everything in listed in that discussion due to a lithium battery fire (very bad stuff) but that is off-topic on this forum. So I'm basically starting fresh.