madmozg One last question: when you were adjusting, did you find you straining a bit more to read text versus viewing images/watching videos and did that resolve in that 3-4 day period?

      whystrainwhy I remember this behavior when I was testing macbook airs, and maybe on a day 1 with this new macbook, but after that I didn't notice a difference between reading text or watching a video.

          madmozg Thankyou so much again for your response, it really gives me a lot of hope to keep going 🙂 Our brains and eyes are strange and wonderful things aren't they? haha

            I don't want to get anyone's hopes up and want to be cautious but this is the best experience that I've had stood Infront of an Apple Silicon.. I just checked it out for 10/15mins in the store.

            Hard to say for certain, Ill definitely be keeping an eye on it!!

            I did check an M3air for a few moments and I'm pretty certain the M4 Pro didn't have the trance like brain fog symptom.

            So so hard to say for sure though…

              GBowler thats exciting news 🙂

              If you guys are planning to test MBP 16 at apple store dont forget to download stillcolor app and disable dithering.

                  madmozg Yeah I've just been back to the store and it's hard to believe, but this seems to be comfortable for me..

                  I'll be proceeding with caution, I still feel like I'm a little spun out after looking at it.. but maybe that's the promotion. I'll likely get hold of one soon for a big test run.

                  Unbelievable if the end of this drama is in sight!

                    Ok, lets see then. 1 Day impression does not count. But 14 day, or at least good 1.5 weeks of work (~12 day) should give some decent answers. 6 Days using color LCD profile, 6 days using sRGB if there would be any strain on native ICC. Also 1/2 of the time should be spend using this machine on external monitor, which is known to be decent, i.e. works well with let say windows machine or old intel mac. By well, it does not mean there is no eye strain from long hours of work, it just means there is no abnormal eye strain that triggers quickly and is residual even after leaving montitor for 10 minutes or so.. If this test passes, then there is another set of tests needed to debunk wrong batch hypothesis. Sadly, in my area, there is no return policty, so I hope someone in US, CA, UK, FR, DE, … etc could perform these tests. There should be at least 7 out of 10 people who say - OK, I can work with this all day.

                    madmozg So good news so far. After some tinkering, I finally got the screen to stop feeling like it was "moving" by using StillColor AND BetterDisplay. This is the first time I've felt like my eyes are extremely relaxed when looking at the screen, however I do find a bit of pressure build up in parts of my head like the top and parts of the back but not any kind of headache like I've historically gotten. Not tons, but after a few minutes, it starts feeling that way. I haven't tried using it for multiple consecutive hours just yet, but I will keep trying and see if I adapt. So far, I'm very pleased. I looked at your Reddit post again, and you also had some head pressure within that first week as you were adjusting?

                    For anyone else wanting to try out the M4 Macbook Pro, Here are the settings I am using right now:

                    StillColor:

                    In the application, I have "Disable Dithering" and "Disable Uniformity2D" both selected.

                    I ensured that the dithering was turned off via StillColor and not so much with BetterDisplay by running this command and receiving three results that all say "No" for the "enableDither" flag.

                    ➜  ~ ioreg -lw0 | grep -i enableDither
    | |   |   |   "enableDither" = No
    | |   |   |   "enableDither" = No
    | |   |   |   "enableDither" = No
➜  ~

                    Then of course, here are my display settings:

                    TrueTone is disabled

                    Automatically Adjust Brightness is turned off

                    Display Profile Preset: "BetterDisplay XDR" - (I found BetterDisplayXDR to be better than the others) so I will continue to tinker with the different options.

                    I'm currently trying out both ProMotion and 60hz. 60 Hz feels a bit more comfortable on my eyes.

                    To be honest, I don't know how this will go over the coming days, but I feel more hopeful for this laptop than I have for the 10-15+ laptops I've tried in the last 2 years (all of which were unusable for me including M1-M3 Macbook Airs and Macbook Pros). Anyway, I hope this config helps others 🙂

                      Sorry, but for 2k machine, I do not want any tinkering 🙂 Its kind of bad news at least to me 🙂

                        madmozg Yeah of course 🙂 I'll admit, I used the laptop for 2-2.5 hours today and I felt "cooked" a bit from the pressure in the head, but that's why I was curious with your journey. You said you went for 2 hours the first day. Was that because you couldn't "take it" much longer and needed a break? Or was it just circumstances of the day got in the way? I'm hoping to incrementally increase the amount of time I use the screen, but right now I'm typing this message on my 100% comfortable 2014 macbook pro because I think I needed a break from the screen from the M4 lol. Does this sound familiar?

                            whystrainwhy Everyone has in some way similar, but in another way different eye strain experience. To me - "feeling cooked" does not sound right. With a decent machine, I could push full day no problem, even if there would be a strain. 2 hours does not sound right at least to me. But I am wondering how it would feel with external monitor, and also with a laptop panel, how it would feel if you switch to sRGB (Web & Internet). I am assuming you are running Color LCD, which I treat as "show off mode" for the retail store front, definitely not suitable for work on this hardware.

                              Donux @madmozg As I've alluded to before, the best chance for a native solution is to find someone involved with engineering at Apple who is either really bored or experiences the issue themselves and having the technical evidence in hand and is amiable to discussions potential solutions. Of course getting exact empirical evidence is a challenge in itself.

                                Hey guys, the panel lottery with new MBP M4 is real. I've received yesterday MBP M4 Max in addition to my current MBP M4, I though that I need a more powerful laptop to be safe for the next couple of years.

                                MBP M4 (I dont have any strain with this):

                                "raw-panel-serial-number" = <"F0YHAP0007N00006GT+A+P9RN49001F24D9+PROD+Y437343934426+P805R0801Y50540907+424C9GC6782423J46D000A43B48T47X7577EIM1A4O67707+5044141A144252A144251544262844271544262034432234"

                                MBP M4 Max (not comfortable symptoms):

                                "raw-panel-serial-number" = <"FMXHA10032Y00006GW+A+GE1S4807881361+PROD+Y431343434354+K60640772Y72140803+433C9GC30424190F46R000A42T46345D78403IAD4973493+A24375208439420D43952643951A43951543962044395100

                                I've asked claude if it could decode this serial numbers. So here is the response:

                                It can be pretty inaccurate, but still some interesting info to post here.

                                Also from symptoms perspective I don't like it at all. I can tell that I'm feeling weird with some symptoms like pre/headaches symptoms and some eye irritations. Its not comfortable at all. Going to return it back. Also would be great if someone could help with a better decoding.

                                  Interesting about the panels. I wonder if you can post what it says in colorSync utility? Click on the Devices Tab, click on your Display, then click "open" on the "Factory Profile" section and then look for line 16. It should say "Apple Display Make and Information". Is there any difference between the M4 (base) and M4 (max) that you can see in the fields displayed there?

                                  Here is what it looks like on my 2017 MBP 13 for reference:

                                    asus389

                                    MBP M4:

                                    MBP M4 Max:

                                    I went through all the list there, no other differences besides this Model info.

                                      Hey, have anyone tried a 14 inch M4? Does it also use quantum dot now?

                                        Back at the apple store today having looked at lots of Windows laptops (on a side note the ones I find most comfortable happen to be touch screen when I check) but yeah super comfortable on 16" and 14" today very tempted to test one but will likely wait till after Xmas.

                                        I looked at a new mini on a studio display and this started spinning me out in seconds.

                                        there really is something massively different going on!!

                                          GBowler

                                          anyone

                                          I just wanted to respond on here that I do hope it works well for you guys. I think there's something in the OS itself happening for me because I ended up returning my 16" M4 MBP due to that super strainy feeling that I just didn't have it in me to "push past" that 2 hour mark. I may wait until the M4 Macbook Air comes and try that but there have been some people who have felt good from it, but there is also a panel lottery between them so just be aware of that too 🙂

                                                dev