• AbstractOther
  • Treatments, desensitization, pills, exercises - solutions

AGI feeling changes after only a few days with the wheel/circles! have to try the switching one now.

    JTL I do not have them yet. They should fix all accomodation and also divergence issues I have, as well as shortsightedness, which I know is not the cause of this problem, but the former two were already proven to be connected before.
    It is possible that the dithering requires your eyes to reaccomodate the eyes all the time due to the display flicker (temporal dithering being part of it). If the accomodation is weak, it could cause eye strain -> migraine.
    I will see when I test it properly. However before the iphone gave me immediate issues, with the glasses on after 30 minutes it seemed fine.
    There is still a chance that nonetheless I am still sensitive to PWM flicker, but that could be more easily avoided now.

    reaganry Could you specify the exercises, a link to them with description? I cannot find it anywhere.

      Regarding my own testing before I go again to see the optometrist to get glasses and exercise suggestions, I tried to cover my right eye with a patch and use an iphone 6s that was causing issues. So far it seems good after half an hour. Not perfect, but not unbearably painful. Needless to say that it also takes some practice, as Ive noticed that when I KNOW some screens cause me issues, I remember the issues immediately when I see the screen and the pain onset is faster and stronger - sometimes just remembering the migraine pain can bring on a small migraine or similar feeling.

      I recommend trying to cover one of your eyes, or both interchangeably (completely, eye patch ideally, no light in) and use some device. This way you could confirm or rule out that the issue is connected to eye vergence.
      Good article about connection - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266949405_Convergence_Insufficiency_Associated_with_Migraine_A_Case_Series

      Also make sure the device doesnt use PWM, as if youre sensitive to that, vergence or not, it might give you issues.

        martin

        martin to cover my right eye with a patch

        My right eye shakes (nystagmus). It always has since I was born but it got worse in 2011 when this issue started. Cannabis is the ONLY medicine that helps with it, not 100% but it seems to be getting better in absence of the medicine as well.

          JTL I didnt know that, that seems like a clear connection.

          i wonder how VR could fit into this divergence scenario- with the separate screens for each eye

          martin did you try this three thumbs one to strengthen divergence? seems to help for me immediately .

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1hplhaPHoA

          What if our dithering/flickering here conveys a 'magic eye 3D-like' false depth message to the brain, causing us to focus behind the screen (overconverge).

          (seee also lenticular printing, stereogram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autostereogram)-

          interesting (to me) this effect was discovered by Wheatsone. his name come up all the time for me - bridge rectifier(turns ac to dc, scales), telegraph, speed of electricity, spectroscopy, invented the concertina(!)

          more exercises here ... http://www.tedmontgomery.com/the_eye/VT/therapy.html

            to see the magic eye/autostereograms people have to "learn to train their eyes to decouple eye convergence from lens focusing"

            The eyes normally focus and converge at the same distance in a process known as accommodative convergence. That is, when looking at a faraway object, the brain automatically flattens the lenses and rotates the two eyeballs for wall-eyed viewing. It is possible to train the brain to decouple these two operations. This decoupling has no useful purpose in everyday life, because it prevents the brain from interpreting objects in a coherent manner. To see a man-made picture such as an autostereogram where patterns are repeated horizontally, however, decoupling of focusing from convergence is crucial.[2]

            By focusing the lenses on a nearby autostereogram where patterns are repeated and by converging the eyeballs at a distant point behind the autostereogram image, one can trick the brain into seeing 3D images. If the patterns received by the two eyes are similar enough, the brain will consider these two patterns a match and treat them as coming from the same imaginary object. This type of visualization is known as wall-eyed viewing, because the eyeballs adopt a wall-eyed convergence on a distant plane, even though the autostereogram image is actually closer to the eyes.[21] Because the two eyeballs converge on a plane farther away, the perceived location of the imaginary object is behind the autostereogram. The imaginary object also appears bigger than the patterns on the autostereogram because of foreshortening.

              11 days later

              reaganry Hello, thank you for the wholesome desciption. I have not tried it yet, as the specialist I am seeing mentioned that the exercies need to be crafted and adjusted in relation to my specific problem only (convergence excess, hidden esothropia, accomodation insufficiency). I have the glasses on the way in two weeks, I will test them for a month or two and then he will see how he needs to craft those exercises.
              Hopefully then, this problem might be resolved, or lessed to enough degree that I can use any modern tech for work-amount of time.
              I have to stress again - if you or any of you here have 20/20 eyesight, good ophtalmology results etc., it means NOTHING. Eyesight and VISION are two different things. You need to find an optometrist that can find possible hidden issuses with your eyes. A good article for clarification is here - http://www.children-special-needs.org/vision_therapy/esophoria_reading.html

              Why the new displays cause this issue to surface and give headaches? I dont know, nor do I know if this will be the final solution. It is possible that the new tech triggers this issue more than the old one. My current theory that the specialist finds interesting is that with flickering displays, the need to reaccomodate and keep eyes fixed on letters while reading is higher (remember PWM and the blurry fonts and words example from tftcentral?). Therefore if one lacks in this department, PWM, flicker and who knows what other issue will sent his vision into overload.
              The issue I have is of about 5-10% prevalence in society, which would also go with the estimated numbers we often see on PWM sensitivity and on the intel forum eyestrain.
              He also has a person under treatment who has the same issue as me, but instead of migraines he gets very bad vertigo. The reaction of each person might be very individual.

              He said that with new tech and VR, more and more people will probably start having these issues and find their way into his office.

                martin if it is an issue with both eyes accommodating/converging together then you would think that viewing a screen with a patch over one eye would eliminate the issue?

                if it doesn't solve it, I would imagine any 20/20 individual with both eyes functioning well would see everything ok but then with one eye's vision occluded then notice the flickering/dithering/PWM?

                martin new tech and VR

                Well there was one person here talking about the Oculus Rift. I imagined it to be quite bad because the early units were just modified Samsung AMOLED screens with severe PWM but the "usable" report was just a single person so more data is needed.

                Something weird for y'all to mull over, I assure you this is 100% true.

                I have similar screen issues to everyone here, phones are a massive issue, newer graphics cards, keep to a few specific monitors I know I can use etc etc otherwise I will suffer migraines.

                Sunflower Oil, whenever I eat it, regardless of what with/form, my screen problems become 10x worse and suddenly I can't use any screens without pain for a few days.

                13 days later

                So I have the glasses, and it does help. A lot. As much as solving the whole issue, but I dont want to get ahead of myself. They are for my specific case and intensity of convergence excess and accomodation insufficiency. I am not sure whether I am still sensitive to PWM (might be), I havent tested it yet. But the iphone 6s plus that was giving me terrible issues before is now fine. Completely above 50% brightness and seems to be slightly less comfy below 50%, but I am not sure if it has PWM or if Im just making it up. I get some slight headpressure, but its easy to forget about it when reading or doing something on it. Switching screen brings about slight discomfort that slowly fades. Old screens and safe browsers (waterfox) are still most comfortable though, but even here I sometimes get slight strain, mostly from getting used to the glasses.
                They only work for 20cm-1m so far, only made for close work now. The optometrist said that I need to take 3 weeks to get used to them and then we can do specific exercises, so I can handle phones and screens for some time even without them (the fist two days of using them, my right eye, which is the lazy one, hurt terribly even on slight touch). They also serve as therapeutic tool, as they relax the tense muscles, so when I wear them all day and take them off, I can tolerate the bad displays longer and better.
                I strongly recommend for everyone to find an OPTOMETRIST who will give you 1-2 hours of his time in measurements. Travel if you have to. I had to take a 3,5hr train ride couple times to see him. Theres two people who do this properly in my whole country (10million). He has a PhD in biophysics and does optometry as a main job. I think, after three years, my issue might be solved now. But I will see how it develops I still might be prone to migraines, or am, and have to be careful of other possible triggers or get it solved via the SCM stretching, massage, acupuncture and other possible means.

                The theory? I have no idea. There is something that triggers hidden eye issues in new displays and makes them manifest. Why I cant figure out, neither can the optometrist. The new stuff seems to give a lot less to focus on and lock focus on. Dithering, gloss, glare, anti aliasing, pwm, who knows what else. But hes doing research and also wants to experiment with VR.

                I would love to hear of more people having this issue solved, as I know how terrible it is in daily life. You can be the strongest and fittest person ever, but headaches like that will make you crippled, tired and weak. Ive been marked as crazy, people make fun of me, very few believed me, I became really depressed and demotivated and I was expecting to end up as a manual worker after building my education and career for 10 years, and leave all my life behind as most would think I went insane with a change like that. I respect manual work, but I would be missing those 10 years of experience and all my friends who do completely different things.🙂

                  martin Very cool.

                  I'm getting my eyes retested in nearly two weeks, What should I ask my optometrist about?

                  I wonder where I could find a similar optometrist or opthamologist who knows about this in BC, Canada and/or Washington State US.

                    JTL I would describe your problem as best as possible and mention that there was already a case (before me) where one person solved it by exercising for convergence insufficiency. He should test for vergence in general (there is convergence insufficiency, excess, and divergence insufficiency and excess, theyre not interchangeable, all are from different muscle tensions). He should also test for accomodation, how fast you are able to reaccomodate when looking far and near etc., mine was measuring with stopwatch and also distance with a meter.
                    The glasses I have now dont allow me to converge properly for distance, so when I try that, my eyes start hurting similarly as when looking at a problematic display. I have different problem with distance and with near. So eventually the glasses will have to be for distance on top and near on bottom. And who knows what the exercises will do, so they might need to be redone. Its not a complete solution yet, but the difference to my previous state is so singnificant, that its the most progress Ive made in the last three years and a definite connection.

                    If you cant find anyone, find articles online about those four issues of vergence and try to write people who wrote them to recommend you somewhere. I ran into ophtalmologists saying this is bullshit, i ran into an optometrist for kids who had no clue. Dont get discouraged. My neurologist has no idea a discipline like optometry even exists and shes on the board of national headache association... My migraine doctor had no clue what the writing from the report means, and he was a GOOD doctor who tested for acupressure points and everything else and treated several migraine patients in the past. He found some spots and trigger points that I will eventually try to solve too, if this doesnt work completely.

                      dev