I am strapped for time lately with personal stuff, but I'm HAPPY to write the petition if someone else can do a little legwork to find out who at MS to submit it to. Once I have some more time (late spring, early summer) I can even take lead on this initiative. If someone else wants to sign on here to run point temporarily, I'll totally do the tech write up. I would suggest that we file it as a bug. I do have the ability to open premier tickets through my work but that would unfortunately be misappropriation of work funds.

UPDATE: I have reached out to my corporate TAM (technical account manager) for advice on how to engage with MS on this issue. If this were a problem with users at my office, I'd be raising this with her and with the Premier support team who can directly interface with development leads if needed... but it's not a work issue so I've asked her how to proceed, hoping she can connect us with the right person/people there.

  • Gurm replied to this.
  • JTL likes this.

    Gurm @JTL I got a reply from my TAM. She is sympathetic, and is reaching out to one of her counterparts in consumer support. It's not the same on the consumer side, which makes this more difficult. If this were a problem facing my organization, we'd have a bug fix a resolution or timeline for one within a few weeks, interfacing directly with top-tier technical resources who can talk to the developers. But I think she was impressed that we knew exactly what build caused the problems and what feature we believe to be the origin of the issue. So maybe we'll get some traction! Fingers crossed.

        Gurm There's a new Windows 10 build called the "Spring Creators Update" coming out soon. I doubt it's going to solve this issue but it might be worth a quick test just in case to avoid wasting anyone's time.

            11 days later

            ryans IIRC Intel graphics might still render the final output

            I 100% doubt Windows 10 2018 update magically makes the screen take input from the dedicated GPU on an Optimus laptop, since it's a hardware limitation (screen is directly connected to Intel graphics). This is confirmed under Linux with reverse engineered driver as well.

            And does Windows 10 2018 update fix the eyestrain issues @Gurm was talking about?

              Seefree Very sorry to hear that. I am new to this forum and someone suggested e-ink solutions in another thread. I am strongly considering purchasing an ONYX BOOX Max 2 which has a 13.3" e-ink display and can be used as a standalone tablet and as a monitor. Probably with ghosting and other downsides but it may be worth exploring.

              Most guys really know about computers here, contrarily to me, so it may be nothing new to them but I just found out that two big companies, Eink and Sony, are working on the first e-ink laptop

              https://goodereader.com/blog/e-paper/sony-is-developing-an-e-ink-laptop

              https://youtu.be/NP1Y7QMAah8

              Hopefully we do not have to wait long.

              This is really new, dated April 16, 2018, and seems to confirm that Sony is still working on e-ink

              https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/4/16/17242014/sony-digital-paper-dpt-cp1-e-ink-tablet-announced-japan

              Seefree -Iphone 6 okay moderate symptoms
              -Ipod touch 6 gen same as iphone 6
              -Ipad mini 1 severe migraines
              -Iphone 8 plus severe anxiety and head pressure and blurry vision

              This is not really laptop-related but since you mentioned it and I am having now troubles also with smartphones I would like to comment.
              I read some people who are intolerant to IPhone X's AMOLED display downgraded to IPhone 8 without any symptom. I definitely cannot stand IPhone X, so I thought I would be fine with an IPhone 8 or 7. I tried one and the other for 20 minutes in a shop on separate days and had moderate eyestrain afterwards, IPhone 8 feeling more aggressive. Considering the extent of the investment I passed on both. Now, if I understand IPhone 8 and 7 are proved to be PWM-free, so what bothers me must be else or also else. Maybe dithering as you say?

              Seefree Im pretty sure my main problem is due to any form of dithering as i bet all apple products apple this to macOS and iOS.

                    Gurm If you're facing this problem as a member of your organization while at work which has led to issues involving you avoiding builds that other people are on, is this not considered a work issue? Maybe you're just one guy that you know of, but it's undeniable that you have been affected..

                    As a side note, my work has started rolling out some Thinkpad laptop to people with Win 10 on it. I'm going to try and stay on my HP with 7 as long as I can, they upgrade every 3 years and I'm already past 3 years but they also tend to forget to do the upgrades unless you ask for it. I hate 10 almost as much as I hate Office 365. Other than the fact that the screens have less vibrancy on the bigscreen wall displays, Windows 8.1 and 10 both use GREYSCALE font anti-aliasing. I do not understand why anyone finds this acceptable on a PC. I get it, it makes sense on a tablet or mobile because of changing angles, and so forth, but on a PC with a panel that is not 4K or 8K? No. That's garbage.

                      10 days later
                      12 days later

                      AGI No one knows. I have some initial thoughts of the specifications I will post later.

                        5 days later

                        Seefree i just read the e readers use dithering too

                        if your talking about the Dasung Paperlike and dithering, it's caused by the GPU output similar to the dithering sensitivity you are having with various devices. The Dasuing itself does no "moving image" dithering.

                          11 days later

                          On my HP EliteBook Laptop for work (that does give me eyestrain), I noticed something very odd. It's a TN display and thus has bad viewing angles. When the display is tilted up (away from the keyboard) , I can see a strange flicker-flash -- it almost looks like PWM. Only when the display is tilted can I see this.

                          Connecting this laptop to an external monitor still bothers me but not nearly as much as looking at the laptop screen directly. So on this laptop, I think the problem is PWM + maybe Dithering + perhaps something else Windows 10 does.

                          • JTL replied to this.

                            Hi Seefree,

                            This quite offtopic, but I can't find a personal message button so I'll just leave this here, I was diagnosed with CFS about 12years ago, and like you was bed bound but managed to find relief in trying something called the 'Specific Carbohydrate Diet' which helped me alot, I'd say now I am 50-75% better with most of the improvement occurring in the first month or two.

                            As I am sure you know your own experiences every CFS case is different, and these lifestyle diets can be kinda cult-like so I don't blame you if you give it a miss! I had concurrent digestive problems with my CFS so trying all the weird diets was a priority.

                            /diversion over, everyone resume talking about laptops 🙂

                            9 days later

                            So this weekend I made a very unusual discovery. I've had a laptop kicking around for a while - it's a Dell Workstation replacement. Probably a 2015 model. It has Intel Pro 530 (P530) graphics, and a secondary ATI FireGL Pro. And it's perfectly usable for me. In Windows 10 original release (or LTSB 2015) it is wonderful. It is even tolerable with the Creator's Update, although not perfect it was usable for an hour or so without significant eyestrain.

                            I'm going to pull exact model numbers, this is a BEAST of a machine so I have co-opted it as my primary!

                            a year later

                            I'm really desperate about finding a new laptop - each one of them I've tried gives me eye strain after 15-20 minutes. The problem is - I need to have a working computer for my job, but my old laptop is not good enough in terms of performance.
                            Anybody have any suggestion for the new models came out in 2018/2019?

                            I am fine with the dell series latitude E55XX. To be more precise i've used the E5550 and E5590. I sugest you to try this last one. 🙂

                              dev