Sunspark Ah ok, I also have a dental protector. In fact, some users here also have it, and if it wasn't because bruxism is so common in these stressfull era, I would say it has something to do with eyestrain problems.

@Sunspark @AgentX20 Would one of you two have 10 minuts to send a message to windows staff through the Windows 10 feedback option to warn them about the problems we are suffering due their update on the graphic layer managment? With this we will have a way to gives "likes" to that question and make it more visible. Also, we will tag one Windows developer who will support us (I think). Is the better idea to get the attention of Windowdos developer it comes to my mind. COuld you spend 10 minutes on that? If yes, answer here and I will pass you the details

      For people who are on Windows 10 1511 build is it possible to get security updates? Or those updates are only available at lastest builds?

        tfouto You need Windows 10 Enterprise 2015 LTSB to get security updates (until 2025). I use it on my PC and laptops now and it has rehabilitated what I thought to be a eyestrain-inducing laptop. Windows 10 Enterprise 2015 LTSB + Intel graphics disabled (using Microsoft Basic Display Adapter) (or unless of course you have a known good Nvidia card) + Chrome HW acceleration disabled is the best combo going right now, IMO. You may need to download driver packs or use Snappy Driver Installer (look for drivers with requirement 10.0, not 10.0...xxxxx, as this denotes a high Windows 10 build requirement) to find drivers that work with this version, especially for use with a modern laptop. I was able to find a driver for Intel UHD 630 compatible with Windows 10 RTM (also works for 2015 LTSB), which I couldn't find anywhere else on the internet. Sometimes you can edit INF files for drivers to remove the requirements for the newer Windows 10 builds and they will work fine (although this won't work for Intel graphics, as they keep updating the driver to require newer versions of WDDM).

        Also to get Windows Update working for 2015 LTSB you need to download manually and install the latest Servicing Stack Update and Cumulative update for 1507 LTSB.

            NotAlone @Gurm was hinting at having some connections with Microsoft and Windows developers but I assume he got busy and that didn't go anywhere

            (Sorry to put you on the spot man)

            sigh

            • Gurm replied to this.

                degen I'm probably going to move to 8.1 for personal use eventually as there is nothing pressing me to use W10 in a hurry. In a work situation I assume that you can't use the 2015 build and are stuck on the latest and greatest?

                I tried W10 on my current good machine, and it actually loads the 2010 W7 graphics drivers for it. I still notice strain so something is going on with newer W10 builds as everybody is pointing out.

                So it's a multi-layered approach to this issue. We could find ourselves a good graphics card output and driver tomorrow, but the latest OS makes it uncomfortable. Or the OS by M$ is fixed and we have a good card, but the driver forces dithering or causes issues (then again that could be mitigated by using Basic Display Adapter instead). It's still not a practical solution though as you won't be able to do anything graphics intensive.

                It's so frustrating..

                  I think I'll totally give up on new OS. I installed Windows XP and from there connect via VNC to an up-to-date Linux machine with modern web browser. This way: no Linux eye strain, and no Win 7/10 nor any future eye strain.

                    NotAlone Would one of you two have 10 minuts to send a message to windows staff through the Windows 10 feedback option to warn them about the problems we are suffering due their update on the graphic layer managment? With this we will have a way to gives "likes" to that question and make it more visible. Also, we will tag one Windows developer who will support us (I think). Is the better idea to get the attention of Windowdos developer it comes to my mind. COuld you spend 10 minutes on that? If yes, answer here and I will pass you the details

                    Hey NotAlone. To be honest - with the variable problems I've experienced (now my trusty Macbook of 6 years has 'gone bad' for me), I really don't know what's going on these days. I've found things to be too variable in the last 12 months to be able to paint a somewhat accurate picture of 'the problem' so I'm reluctant to go hassling Windows devs.

                        JTL I actually chased this around, was encouraged to file a bug report/feature request. No good way to check on those though. I kind of dead-ended and then the rep I was on good terms with left, and we got downgraded to a lower tier of support. So, although I can try to check on it, I doubt we're going to get what we want from them.

                        But the fact that I've seen good setups recently is weirdly both encouraging AND discouraging. The fact that I can go to a convention and play XBox on a random TV with a random off-the-shelf XBox One X and have it be completely FINE... or that I can use a random machine they set up to demo Windows Hello and have it be FINE... but that I can buy an XBox One X and hook it up to a known-good TV and immediately return it because it's awful... is just weird and offputting. I really don't know what's going on any more.

                            Gurm I actually chased this around, was encouraged to file a bug report/feature request. No good way to check on those though. I kind of dead-ended and then the rep I was on good terms with left, and we got downgraded to a lower tier of support. So, although I can try to check on it, I doubt we're going to get what we want from them.

                            Thanks for trying what you could.

                              Gurm I really don't know what's going on any more.

                              I know the feeling...

                                degen Which is the latest Laptop hardware you can you? Where to get Windows 10 Enterprise 2015 LTSB? How died you disable hardware acceleration in Chrome?

                                  KM I think I'll totally give up on new OS. I installed Windows XP and from there connect via VNC to an up-to-date Linux machine with modern web browser. This way: no Linux eye strain, and no Win 7/10 nor any future eye strain.

                                  I am going to consider the remote option at least temporarily to get some value out of my NUC. There are other mainstream apps such as TeamViewer that allow free use over LAN. I don't expect 60fps but it should be more than adequate for web and music work.

                                  Ironically Amulet Hotkey have some good remote desktop solutions! 🙂

                                      degen How can i buy licenses for Windows 10 Entreprise 2015?

                                        KM What about Win7? Doesn't it works for you?

                                        AgentX20 Well, we do know some facts, as the composite layer appeared on a certain Win10 build or windows CLearType. I think it worth it, but as anyone here seems to want to do that, I will just post a link here to a microsoft forum where someone inside Microsoft explained how to do what I wanted to do (with the help of a Win10 user), where also he points to be mentioned on the feedback message to microsoft to be more helpfull. If anyone thinks it is worth to try to get better in our setups he can find the info there. From my part it doesn't matters, because I can't even use XP, but I wanted to do it for the benefit of the group. Now it's up to al of you. The link: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/visual-display-problems-after-installilng-windows/17ccdc75-93b7-46ba-9797-966c8189998d

                                        @diop I use NoMachine, it is very good and easy to use. Android eReader as a screen to whatever you want
                                        Guys, keep your heads up, or you will end stop trying to improve this situation

                                            KM How can you get Windows Enterprise. Not free. I can't find to get it.

                                              15 days later

                                              diop

                                              I am on a Macbook Pro 16" 2019 and I have found that when I look at someone's screen over Teamviewer, I can look at it all day without having eyes burning. Same seems to be with Windows running inside a Parallels Desktop virtual machine. The guys I'm working with are running Windows and confirm that they, too, find it easier to focus when reading code on someone else's screen over Teamviewer than on their own screen.

                                              • diop replied to this.

                                                  henno I am on a Macbook Pro 16" 2019 and I have found that when I look at someone's screen over Teamviewer, I can look at it all day without having eyes burning. Same seems to be with Windows running inside a Parallels Desktop virtual machine. The guys I'm working with are running Windows and confirm that they, too, find it easier to focus when reading code on someone else's screen over Teamviewer than on their own screen.

                                                  Hi there. Do you have problems using the Mac outside of TeamViewer? I've typically found that a bad system is bad regardless of the content being displayed or apps in use. It may be the fonts on the Windows side are slightly more legible or maybe the TV client is scaled slightly differently than the native resolution of the machine.

                                                    Yes, I have big problems using the Mac outside of Teamviewer. I still own a 15" Macbook Pro Mid 2014 and 15" Macbook Pro Late 2013. I don't have any issues with those. Only with my new 2019 16" Macbook Pro. The issue is that my eyes start to feel burning sensation pretty much immediately when I look at the screen. I have moved the matte screen protector from my 2014 computer to 2019 one (the previous owner had it installed to protect the Mac's aftermarket value) and it helped a little bit. I started to use Iris Pro and it helps also a little bit. But I still feel the desert in my eyes within seconds of looking my Mac. But when I put my Windows virtual machine to full screen or when I put Teamviewer to full screen and look at my colleagues' screens, my eyes immediately relax. I actually feel muscles around my eyes immediately loosen up when I switch to Parallels or Teamviewer.

                                                    All my Macs are running Catalina. Maybe it's the video card drivers: my old Macs have old video cards for which Apple maybe hasn't bothered to implement dithering while it has for newer hardware. When I look at Windows 10 login screen background image (you know, the one with looking at a beach from a cave) through Teamviewer, I see the that the color space is quite narrow, as the sky in the image has clearly defined areas of different shades of blue. That tells me that if there is any temporal dithering or other high frequency pixel flickering, Teamviewer filters that out.

                                                    Okay, I have now done some more extensive testing. I installed another macOS virtual machine using Parallels Desktop onto my Mac. Then I installed Parallels Tools on it to get other resolutions besides 1024x768 and then I set the same resolution (the default retina one which macOS ships with) on both computers (virtual and real), then I opened the same web page in full screen on both of them and aligned the pages to be pixel perfectly at the same scrolling position. Then I swiped with three fingers from left to right and back again to switch between the computers. I tested that way very long time and I concluded that:

                                                    1. My eyes do not see any pixels to be different on the computers. They look identical. Even when I try hard to look for a difference.
                                                    2. Every time I had switched to my real computer I started feeling a tension in my body. Like electric current. Very faint but still noticeable. Something you can feel in your head when you put your hands together like you were praying (🙏) and applying a little bit pressure between your palms.
                                                    3. Every time I switched back to my virtual machine, the tension feeling stopped but there was nothing that I could find on the screen that would be different. However, I instantly felt relaxed on the virtual machine's screen.
                                                    4. When I closed my eyes and repeated the experiement (swiped between the computers), I could not feel the tension on either machine. Only when I had my eyes open I could feel the tension on my host computer. It seems to me that it comes from the light of the blank (white) area of the screen. Dithering?

                                                    This came to my mind while I was doing the experiment: https://youtu.be/5KiLVOAK7U0

                                                      dev