hayder1983 I can only tell you one thing… I would not be so sure your issues are with the graphics card. It could well be the motherboard/chipset. Before building a new PC I asked here whether people think motherboard could imapct this and overall people believed ti couldn't. But I'm not sure of it anymore.

I bought a similar system to yours, Gigabyte with a B660 chipset, i5-12400 (no F). And I get similar symptoms with a whole set of graphics cards that I bought and then returned until I decided to keep one of them but it is not good either. Internal graphics? Maybe feels a bit better, but far from OK either… I don't know what to believe and don't have the time to build various systems and spend hours testing each of them…

On the contrary there are people that have the same chipset as we do and say they observe no changes with the same graphics card… (@ludwig)

On the contrary I have two NVIDIA Quadro-based (T1000) laptops running Win10 21h2 (same as the PC) and they are OK for me, both using their built-in display and the same monitor as on the PC. Incredible.

Before this PC I tried two laptops (both Lenovo Legion 5 with 10300h i5 - one with nvidia 2060, anothe with a 1650) - both very bad.

I also had a pre-built PC with a 11600 i5, B560 and a 1660 TUF and it felt quite OK, but I returned it for other reasons (I probably shouldn't have).

    machala Dont feel bad about your setup, because there is no way of knowing what you can get used to and what not. Dont feel bad about money being wasted, some people will buy cigarettes for more than 1000€ a year but we are trying to do sth beneficial to our health. 😉

    Well it is more than one thing that strains my eye, but a bad device stays a bad device. I think my two Eizo monitors are a weapon. They are meant to be flickerfree, but they do some very fast flickering(up to 50.000 hz and more) on the background lighting settings i use(someone measured it on a recent device). Going to 100/100 brightness doesnt make it better, i tried it and always get immense back pain in the back of my eye using them(harder than any other device i ever used or tested). I also have a BenQ 32 inch that causes only mild eyestrain because no PWM at all, but causes me naseau, but it is better when i use it on a lower resolution centered in the screen(making it more or less a 24 inch screen that way).

    My first problem is PWM. For example i am symptomfree with my 5 year old HUAWEI phone, i use it a lot. I can use it in total darkness without eye strain. I have to do this because i have to wait 10-30 Minutes until my son falls asleep. But there is a brightness setting, that the phone wont toggle down to on its own, you have to force the phone. As soon as i do this by force(put the slider all the way to the left) it is becoming straining. I am sure my eye is not liking it, because it is more flickery that way. I also have a LG TV and i can see the 120hz flicker with my bare eyes when going lower than 50/100 on SDR content. But this can all be solved, there are a lot of flickerfree DC-current monitors out there.

    My second problem could be GPU/Mainboard/softwarerelated. I just looked at my step mums Iphone 13 and it crashes my eyes. My workphone is an Iphone X and it is not causing me symptoms. I think both are using White OLED, so this shouldnt be screen related. They Sony OLED i tested gave me super weird nausea, it is the same screen size as my old one. All picture optimizing was off, it was totally ok in the store. I still think OLED is the way to go, but perhaps i will try a LG 55B2 next, but only after i found a suitable monitor. It is impossible to test anything with a suboptimal monitor.

    I also use up to three devices(PC, worklaptop, steam deck) with the same monitor(i now never use more than one monitor at a time, because it is too many variables). Symptoms are slighty better with the Intel, but until i have an optimal monitor i think i cannot pinpoint(flickerfree, responsive, 24 inch max, TN-Panel colors, sharpness setting to play with). I think it is about font rendering, but i am not sure.

    My next test is the LG 24 GL600F. One of the users in the forum tried it and he never said a bad word about it again(he was active months after getting it). I also searched for people complaing about "eye strain", "strong reds", "flicker" with this monitor, but only complain seems to be with freesync, which you can turn off. It is worth a shot, it is 174€, which is like going to the restaurant 3-4 times in my country. Rtings review below.

    https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/24gl600f

    My last problem is lighting, but i use a lot of daylight and it is near impossible to find out which lighting i prefer, when i dont have a working monitor. I know that some HUE lamps seem to be bearable(hue white and color) and other HUE lamps i own are sh*tty garbage(hue white).

    I am also thinking about getting an old monitor without LEDs inside but with an HDMI port. But my wife is killing me with her nagging about all the stuff i already bought, so will try the LG 24GL600f first.

    If the monitor is better i will try to get a cheap used laptop with a safe GPU and a working docking station(i have one, but not sure it will fit a used laptop). Used laptops can be super cheap and i am totally fine to use PC only for gaming and a safe laptop i can do all my work stuff on.

    You seem to not have problems with your monitor? What are you using right now?

      hayder1983

      I am quite convinced that the motherboard plays a significant role. I changed PC from a ryzen 1700 with X370 motherboard to a ryzen 7900 with b650 motherboard, kept the same video card (RX 480), cable and monitor and after 15 minutes I already have negative symptoms.

      I even cloned the old SSD to try to have the same software but nothing, I keep having problems with headaches and dizziness.
      There is to say that windows installed drivers even though I had windows update blocker on. I guess they are drivers that it has available without having to connect to the internet! It was something related with the PCI bus..

        Lauda89 which problems did you have with the new motherboard? nausea and brainfog? But i dont get nausea with my Eizo monitor, same DP cable, same power cable, same motherboard. Not sure why it should be the motherboard?!

          Lauda89 it is very possible, that my brainfog is due to the monitor but not due to the colors. Perhaps it is even mainboard induced, but i think it is the best to test another monitor before jumping to conclusions.

          hayder1983 Dizziness / brainfog mainly! I needed more than a week to recover. I think it is a software problem or is the pci express 5.0 slot doing something strange! I have no idea. I honestly thought I was comfortable keeping old GPU and SSD, but no! Now i am waiting to receive the nvidia 1660 super and i will try with that GPU! Otherwise I will sell everything and give intel 12 series a try..

            Lauda89 I also had the same symptoms with the old setup when I had upgraded windows to 2004. So it might just be a software issue, because as I said, even with windows update blocker on, windows installed drivers when it recognized the motherboard change!

              Lauda89 i think my old mainboard did only have PCI Express 3, but i am not sure anymore.

              Lauda89 Not sure I understand the "I also had the same symptoms with the old setup when I had upgraded windows to 2004." part.

              Are you saying that when your old Ryzen 1700 system was updated to windows 10 2004 you had exactly the same issues as with the new Ryzen 7xxx and that's why you kept your win 10 on the pre-2004 version?

                hayder1983 Hi, thanks a lot for your message. As for my monitor, I have two that I found OK for me, one of them is really poor - it's a plain TN panel. Another one is a iiyama VA panel.

                One interesting thing is that I seem to have found in the past that it may also be a GPU (or the whole system) vs. specific monitor combination! I also have an older i3-4170 system that I first used with a 6850 AMD card and a very old Benq TN monitor (it was a cheap setup used in my second house). All was perfect. Then I changed the graphics card to NVidia 660. Terrible… I felt it immediately, unstable picture, made me feel dizzy, was hurting my eyes, very obvious. But I knew this card was OK, but I always used it with another TN panel. Brought the panel over to my second house and… all OK, no problem at all. It was years back and on Windows 7.

                BTW finding a good monitor for me is an incredible pain too. However after this finding I'm no longer sure if it's always the monitor. I returned many displays back in the day, most of them were tested with that GTX 660… what if the problem always was in that 660??

                  machala # This could be, but it is hard to tell. And it is easy to test a new monitor or use a different laptop with your monitor. And a lot of people at this forum had less eye strain when switching the monitor, including some switching to older models or some using new TN-Panels.

                  But there was also one guy who is using a external GPU box(forgot the name) so he can use any laptop with an old Nvidia GPU. They still sell this thing, it is meant for super powerful GPUs, but you can just insert an super old PCI express card and therfore use your laptop with your favorite external desktop GPU. Not sure it works with desktop PCs though. He was quit happy and said after a few months that his eyes returned to normal that way.

                  I tested my phone and my TV yesterday. Even my TV is brighter than my monitor. My eyes are watering because of the overly red monitor but not on the brighter more saturated TV. My phone is OLED and is set to "vivid" colors and neutral white. It is a perfect device, always automatically right brightness, best thing i ever bought. Colors are vivid, saturated but they all look perfectly natural, perhaps a bit oversaturated, but nice to look at. No problems when i turn up brightness to max, no eye twitching. If i put my phone on my desk, saturation looks like my monitor at 100% saturation, but colors are not jumping into my eye.

                  After that i tried on my phone:

                  • more reddish whitepoint -> Eyecramping and watering after 1 minute use.
                  • Blueish whitepoint -> nausea
                  • neutral whitepoint -> perfect device

                  So i tried switching my hue lamps

                  • warmwhite -> eyes feeling uncomfortable
                  • neutral white -> too bright
                  • neutral white + 80% brightness -> totally comfortable

                  Then the TV. which has the following settings:cold, neutral, warm1, warm2, warm3

                  • cold -> nausea
                  • neutral -> too bright
                  • warm1 -> perfect brightness but white looks a bit greyish/dirty, but eyes are not reacting
                  • warm2 -> eye cramping

                  This is new. My eyes never reacted that way to warm color temperature. My old TN-Panel had a slight warm touch. I was even using the Eizo ev2495 at 5000K for at least 100 hours(it is now at 200 hours usage according to its settings menu). White is my problem, it needs to look a certain way, otherwise my brain thinks i got food poisoning or my eye is dirty or sth.

                  I dont think my eyes are the cause, i think the BenQ panel is the cause . It is too much light in the colors, too vivid or just too much contrast. My OLED phone is vivid and can go brighter than my monitor and i have 0 problems with it, and it has super high contrast, so i am a bit clueless.

                  And yes it might not be the panel, but the Intel mainboard or the GPU, but my new monitor will arrive today. My docking station for steam deck/laptop arrived yesterday, so can now test any of my devices with any monitor and switch fast. I will try some combinations and share. But this BenQ became unusable for me, and this is like after hundreds of hours of usage.

                  machala So the LG246GL00F-b Panel arrived today, i am using it right now. I cant/wont jump to conclusions, but there is nothing overly reddish to see. Dark saturated colors dont jump out of the screen, Colors arent glowing, but everything is saturated(using 100% saturation). It is a TN-Panel-look much like my old TN-Panel. Perhaps a little more saturation than my old Panel. Still nothing looks greyish, it is just much less light in all of the dark saturated colors.

                  You can not only adjust RGB Gain, but also RGB saturation induvidually. There is also a sharpness slider, black booster, freesync and alot of other stuff. Freesync tested in a few benchmarks, works great, no flicker until yet.

                  I need at least a week for my eyes to adjust, but even when this particular TN-Panel wont work, i am pretty sure that TN-Panel with its limitations to colors and contrast is better suited to my eyes than vibrant VA-Panel, because my eyes have their limitations too.

                  Clokwork

                  I have an 6500XT 4GB card and i have eye issues from my build. If you say it's not the 6500XT card , then it mus lt be the windows then ( i had Win10 and now 11 and they both give me terrible eye pain ). Or maybe the monitor 🤷

                  Thanks for clarifying that 6500XT doesn't use temporal dithering tho 👍

                    Is there any relatively modern card that I should test? Summarizing this thread only a W5500 is a relatively safe bet in terms of eye strain?

                    Allekss do you experience physical eye pain due to your setup or is it more neurological. By that I mean symptoms such as brain fog, vertigo, etc…

                      Allekss

                      Have you tried Linux? You can try it from a just booting from an USB stick as a live image.

                      Clokwork it starts with eye pain and if I continue i get brain fog and sometimes i can not speak properly. If i don't use PC/TV for a week it returns to normal . Strange

                      dev