• Hardware

  • Has anyone gotten used to a straining device pushing through?

martin It's never a bad idea to get your eyes checked and I'd recommend that everybody gets a check up.

What I will say is after a lot of time browsing it seems to me the latest PC display drivers are using temporal dithering. This is because it hides banding and can make an 8bit display look almost as good as a 10/12bit. To the majority of users this effect is imperceptible, however there are various dithering algorithms available (Apple is the worst for me, and I suspect it's their own in-house dithering algorithm). The very nature of dithering involves flicker and introduces noise, however obviously the positives outweigh the negatives (no need to put 10/12 bit panels in any new tech, $profit).

Consumers want the nicest, most vibrant graphics and for this reason banding is a no-no. So we have no choice but to use technology with dithering baked in (perhaps in some cases at the GPU level) to avoid poor image quality.

I am interested to know what research was done into the effects of temporal dithering, if any. We are seeing movement with PWM-free devices now and DC-driven mobiles, but the very real flicker caused by dithering is not addressed. Intel propose that there will be an option to select colour depth soon, but it's doubtful this will disable dithering.

I suppose an analogy could be that everybody else is happy with stereo sound, but we need mono. 🙂

      diop Intel propose that there will be an option to select colour depth soon, but it's doubtful this will disable dithering.

      Could you give a link?

      • diop replied to this.

          martin I only have one eye. So unless my glass eye is sentient this isn't my problem. I have the same sort of issues and pains I read about most people having so I really doubt this is their primary problem either and think any "strengthening" of binocular vision is just improving tolerance and not solving anything.

          diop If it's dithering to make 6-bit laptop panels "prettier" why are old computers ok for unlimited time but new ones all hurt even with the same OS on either? I don't understand how an ancient processor and display on the same OS is not painful if dithering is the cause because they would flicker too. I hate all of this as nothing makes sense. I have read and tried everything I have seen everywhere and there seems to be no hope.

          • diop replied to this.

                diop Apple is the worst for me, and I suspect it's their own in-house dithering algorithm)

                They might use some nasty algorithm on macOS indeed. I never had (and still don't have) any issues with other devices, including iOS. Even the same iMac in BootCamp is good to me. The strain goes away in safe mode, so I suspect there is no dithering in safe mode.

                  I'm feeling better at iMac now, 1.5 years later, than in the beginning: at that time I could not watch movies or even look at the desktop wallpaper image. Now I have strain only while working with the text, where I need to "stare" at letters. So I believe my brain managed to adapt to some extent. I also did lots of tweaking with settings. However, I immediately feel something is wrong with the graphic rendering on this machine, especially when I switch to a good device. E.g, when I do breaks from iMac and surf the net or play a game on iPad.

                  Also, to me the strain is not always the same. If I'm sick or had less sleep, or have sinusitis, I can feel a strain almost immediately. When I'm in a good shape, I can spend some time in front of the screen, before I start feeling a discomfort.

                  vaz If it's dithering to make 6-bit laptop panels "prettier" why are old computers ok for unlimited time but new ones all hurt even with the same OS on either? I don't understand how an ancient processor and display on the same OS is not painful if dithering is the cause because they would flicker too.

                  Just to be clear, are you using the same driver on both systems? If yes the only logical explanation is something has changed in the actual HDMI output, this is all governed by the motherboard and video card (both have BIOS in ROM) which tells the hardware how to behave. The actual video output of new technology may be set to dither regardless of drivers in use and OS in place. Of course this is all speculation at the moment as we haven't got a way to disable dithering at the driver level. Dithering is the elephant in the room that no support forums mention, but seems to be the secret sauce in all offending technology I've used.

                    degen

                    Hi. None of them. I've played a little bit with the developer options. However there wasn't much difference. And i guess that this options don't make any difference.

                    Moreover I've done lots of eye excercices with the phone. Maybe you remember my mentionend prism flippers?!

                      8 days later

                      only gets worse and worse for me, and once sensitized everything cuases headaches.

                      I think it's a gamble, but my current setup (LG24GL600F, radeon580, win10, DP) was giving me eyestrain/headache and then something kind of popped and now it's pretty good. actually seems to give me energy somehow.

                        Seagull it took several days (and tweaking brightness etc), but lots of folks have the other experience where things get worse too, so buyer beware..

                          13 days later

                          vaz I've pushed through, on some devices.
                          By covering one eye, and watch the screen. I read on the forum that it worked better for @martin with one eye, and for me it works really well.
                          It took 3-4 weeks from iPhone 4S to 5S a year ago, it was like winning the lottery!
                          This summer I switched to a iPhone 7, it took 1-2 weeks. Back in the old days it took 7-8 minutes until I got bad tension headache and sore eyes with an iPhone 7. Now the day record is 8 hours and 52 minutes, no tension, but my eyes get a bit tired. So it’s like a miracle.
                          I recently bought the new iPhone 11 Pro. Took 1-2 days with one eye to push throw the tension headache, but I get sore eyes, and it doesn’t get better. So I am trying new ideas to see if it gets better. I can use the 11 pro like 15-20 minutes. I have tried it 3-4 hours in a whole day, after that my eyes was hurting so much, it took some days to recover. So I still use my iPhone 7 with iOS 12.4.1.

                          So the conclusion is that I can push through tension headache and dizziness by using the screen with one eye.

                          I have discovered that medicin for sinusitis allows me to watch some screens longer, so my eyes don’t get so sore. First I used a nose spray “nasoferm” (swedish) for blocked nose, and now I use pills “rinexin” (swedish) for sinusitis. So maybe I'm too tight in my nose/head, or the medicin makes something open/relax!? So now I am a “junkie”, I can’t stop using it. I have next doctors appointment in two weeks.

                          Two weeks ago I got bad news about my mother’s health. So with that in mind I thought about my eye trouble and put on the sadest movie I could find. So I cried a bit, and a bit more. Yeah, I do everything I can to solve this, even if I have to cry like a baby. The results was that my eyes got very sore and it took almost two days to recover.
                          That was interesting because for some years ago I did a test witch resulted in that my eyes couldn’t hold tears in the eyes like they should. So I will do a new examination next time I visit my eye doctor.

                          There you have three things to try. And it was a false alarm about my mother’s health, she is ok!

                          “God Jul” from Sweden!

                              mike Two weeks ago I got bad news about my mother’s health. So with that in mind I thought about my eye trouble and put on the sadest movie I could find. So I cried a bit, and a bit more. Yeah, I do everything I can to solve this, even if I have to cry like a baby. The results was that my eyes got very sore and it took almost two days to recover.

                              Sorry about that 🙁

                              • mike replied to this.

                                  JTL It was a false alarm about my mother’s health, she is ok!

                                    Never had a straining device get better. Often been in a situation where a slightly straining device caused worse and worse strain over weeks. Often been in the position of trying to justify a purchase of <new electronic device which will solve my eyestrain problems>, and the accompanying mental gymnastics, which can cause me to under-evaluate the straining-ness of a device. Usually pushing through will make it worse, and a good device is obvious to me in the beginning.

                                    • mike replied to this.

                                      degen Have you tried any other way than to look with both eyes? Decongestant, or similar medicine?

                                          degen

                                          Would you mind going into more detail?

                                          See I have noticed the further away I am from a problem device the longer it takes for symptoms to present. I do remember someone stating on here that light hitting the periphery of the retina might be a cause. In both my experience, and yours with your pupil constricting medicine, less light from the problem device will find its way to the edge of the retina.

                                            dev