Seagull We are tech savy people

You might be tech savvy, but the silent majority landing on this page may be not.

Seagull No one on here is unknowingly connecting their monitor to the integrated graphics

There are a lot of people who make this unwitting mistake, and simply fixing it could mean an end to their suffering. After all this forum is not meant to solve one particular person's problem now is it? No point getting triggered buddy.
https://superuser.com/questions/511802/do-i-need-to-connect-my-graphics-card-to-my-monitor

There will be a lot of people landing on this page who'll have their problem fixed just by switching to a G-Sync supported laptop. You'll know what works for you when you actually try out what has worked for others. For some a PWM free display might solve the issue, for some a higher refresh rate monitor will work, some will have a faulty graphics card that needs to be replaced, and for some their problem might be totally unrelated to the device they're using. The point is, someone landing on this page will try out the various solutions suggested and might end up fixing their problem instead of going round and round endlessly. Chill out for them 😃

      Any one getting any kind of eye strain or sleep using AMD Ryzen with vega graphics laptop?

      Has anyone had problems with a recent Windows update? I needed to use Best Buy's remote support, and now my eyestrain is back. I know that one of the things they did was update Windows 10 and drivers. I have a Lenovo Flex 5 and run ditherig. It doesn't have PWM, and ditherig helps, but now something else is hurting. Any thoughts? I have so much work to do right now, I need my laptop to be comfortable.

      highradio Thanks highradio. Looking to find an Acer that you mentioned but with 32gb, hard so far. What other options do you know that support this setup? It doesn't seem that any Dells do? Any other top tier brands?

        a month later

        Quick update here - I have returned my M1 Macbook 13" 2020 as it causes the same inability to focus on the screen, headaches, neck pain and migraine as any other Macbook I have purchased since 2011 has caused me. I'm still using my Dell XPS 15 9560 with zero issues.

        I am testing @highradio's hypothesis next and have ordered an HP Omen 15 with G-Sync for testing:

        https://store.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=3F854EA&opt=ABU&sel=NTB

        I'll report back with my findings, fingers crossed. 🚀

          si_edgey Great! Interested to find out how it goes. I'm going to be testing a new Dell XPS (with eyesafe built-in) and hoping to try a Razer with G-Sync also

            Update on the Nvidia G-Sync enabled laptop I purchased, the HP Omen 15-ek0005na.

            I booted up the laptop yesterday after receiving it and initially felt the familiar 'jitter' in my eyes, an inability for them to be at peace that I recognise from MacBooks and any laptop other than my working setup. This was followed by a dizzy feeling quite quickly.

            I jumped into Device Manager and noticed that Intel UHD graphics were running alongside the RTX 2070. Opening the Omen Command Centre software there is an option to switch from Hybrid graphics (Intel & RTX - good for power saving / gaming occasionally) or to pure Discrete graphics:

            After switching to Discrete and rebooting the Intel UHD graphics are gone from Device Manager, the display is calm and feels flat like paper, just like on my working setup. It's too early to say anything conclusive but so far this feels like a usable machine to me, after a few hours of gaming and a couple of hours of work. I have no eye strain, dizziness or nausea at all.

            There are of course a few of downsides of G-Sync laptop:

            • being a gaming laptop, they are big and ugly - if it's for everyday work and travel the XPS 15 9560 would be my go-to
            • it's not silent even when idling, and makes a bit of a racket when gaming
            • power management in Discrete-only mode will be affected, so shorter battery life

            But all of that is easily tradeable if it's a working machine, particularly if you're not cycling to work with it for example.

            All of this appears to be further proof (as if needed!) that my issue lies exclusively with Intel drivers. It's time to go back to Intel with the evidence of how their software can turn a 'good' system 'bad'.

              si_edgey
              Really interesting. Let's see if it's true or just a placebo effect.
              What W10 are you using? 20H2?
              With your daily XPS are you still with 2004?

              I don't think the problem is all related to the intel driver. It would be an easy problem to resolve, just using an AMD or nvidia GPU or the new apple M1 chip.
              But you weren't able to use the M1 mac, so i am still convinced that is an interaction problem of the entire chain OS, Driver and monitor and not only one of them.

                  Lauda89 What W10 are you using? 20H2?
                  With your daily XPS are you still with 2004?

                  Both machines are on W10 v2004.

                  Lauda89 I don't think the problem is all related to the intel driver. It would be an easy problem to resolve, just using an AMD or nvidia GPU or the new apple M1 chip.
                  But you weren't able to use the M1 mac, so i am still convinced that is an interaction problem of the entire chain OS, Driver and monitor and not only one of them.

                  Quite possibly, and you're right about MacBooks - there's something baked into MacOS that really triggers me, Intel or otherwise.

                  Being able to quickly enable / bypass the Intel UHD graphics chip on this laptop is quite enlightening, it would be great if there were some simple tests that could be run with consumer hardware to identify the types of dithering and other flickering that are taking place by way of comparison between the two GPU setups on otherwise identical software and hardware.

                        4 days later

                        si_edgey I tried your Dell setup, but unfortunately it didn't work for me even though I tried different W10 versions and graphics drivers.

                        I will try out Omen with switchable graphics as well and I'm pretty optimistic about it.

                            Dominic Sorry to hear that re: the Dell, that must've been frustrating.

                            Just an update on the Omen, I have been using it for 6-8 hours per day now for gaming and working and have experienced no eye strain from it at all PROVIDED it is switched into Discrete graphics mode as described above, bypassing the Intel UHD hardware.

                            Fingers crossed you get the same result.

                              si_edgey I think the key is Ditherig 1.11 - it is much better than 1.12+3. I can't get it working now on any machines. I tried to buy the new XPS 9700 that comes with "eyesafe" technology in the screen. Unfortunately no luck at all, couldn't get it working. Gsync test for me next also

                                si_edgey Congrats on finding something that works for you! That's very encouraging that Discrete mode removes the eye strain. I'm interested in trying this model as well, especially considering it doesn't use PWM either (Surprisingly). I'm currently stuck on a 2015 MacBook, so this seems like a huge jump in power if it works for my eyes.

                                If anyone else happens to try the Omen, please let us know if it works 😃

                                  si_edgey It would be nice to send that notebook to someone like "bluer buster" and let them analyze it with the intel GPU enable and then with the Nvida GPU enable.
                                  Some difference should be found!

                                    6 days later

                                    @si_edgey I have another question for you 🙂
                                    Did you try to disable the intel GPU on your XPS? Is it possible?

                                    Because I am having many problems with my working laptop so I need to figure out what to buy! I would try the HP spectre 360 15" OLED but it's not available here in Italy.
                                    Thanks to the covid it's impossible to find the majority of the hardware 🙁

                                      Lauda89 Hi @Lauda89 - yes, disabling the Intel GPU in Device Manager was how I used the laptop for many years on Windows 10 v1511. That has downsides though - you're on the MS Basic Display Adapter, which means no power saving (hibernation / sleep mode etc) and obviously extremely limited GPU processing.

                                      These days I just use the oldest drivers possible on Window 10 version 2004 (driver version 21.20.16.4475) and I can use it without symptoms. Switching to the later Intel drivers either makes me dizzy, or triggers a migraine.

                                      I'd highly recommend this HP Omen 15 G-Sync laptop that I'm using right now, it's the most comfy laptop I've ever used, and I'm including my XPS 15 in that category. The only downsides are it's quite noisy and a bit ugly, what with it being a gaming laptop.

                                      Can I ask why you think the OLED 360 will work for you? Are you generally able to used all OLED screens?

                                          si_edgey So if you disable the intel GPU you weren't able to use the Nvidia card? Maybe the screen is "link" only with the intel GPU and not also with the Nvidia?!
                                          Instead, with GSYNC laptop the Nvidia card has to be linked to the screen or it couldn't work, right?!

                                          Well, I've never had any problems with OLED phones (Samsung galaxy, Samsung S2, Iphone X and Pixel 4A) and also with my TV LG B8 (used with PS4, Nintendo Switch and chrome cast). So I am pretty optimistic about that 🙂
                                          Maybe because they are true 10 bit? or maybe because the pixel response time is super low, I don't know to be honest!

                                              Lauda89 So if you disable the intel GPU you weren't able to use the Nvidia card? Maybe the screen is "link" only with the intel GPU and not also with the Nvidia?!
                                              Instead, with GSYNC laptop the Nvidia card has to be linked to the screen or it couldn't work, right?!

                                              From memory, this was the case - the Intel GPU was acting as the 'Master' GPU so when it was disabled, the MS Basic Display Adapter was used instead which wasn't able to access the Nvidia GPU.

                                              But with this G-Sync laptop you can switch to Discrete mode where the Nvidia GPU is connected directly to the display, bypassing the Intel UHD altogether. So if the Intel graphics cause you problems (as it does form me) then this is a great solution. The display also feels very 'warm' to me - whites a milky and pleasant on the eyes.

                                              Lauda89 Well, I've never had any problems with OLED phones (Samsung galaxy, Samsung S2, Iphone X and Pixel 4A) and also with my TV LG B8 (used with PS4, Nintendo Switch and chrome cast). So I am pretty optimistic about that 🙂
                                              Maybe because they are true 10 bit? or maybe because the pixel response time is super low, I don't know to be honest!

                                              Great! I've never actually tried an OLED panel in a device. Sounds like it's worth a shot, as long as there's a good returns policy. With HP you have 14 days to open and try a product before returning, and their returns are very slick - in the UK they collect the laptop from you to take it back.

                                                  Lauda89 maybe because the pixel response time is super low

                                                  I notice a difference in symptoms between LCDs and OLEDs. I think response time is a part of it, but also response time variance. If it takes a pixel 20ms to change, not all the pixels will change at the same rate due to imperfects in the crystals. Some will take 15, others 25 etc. I think the fuzziness this creates might make LCDs worse than OLED for some people. I want to do a study on this, but high speed cameras are expensive!

                                                    si_edgey I'd highly recommend this HP Omen 15 G-Sync laptop that I'm using right now, it's the most comfy laptop I've ever used, and I'm including my XPS 15 in that category. The only downsides are it's quite noisy and a bit ugly, what with it being a gaming laptop.

                                                    This sounds very promising! Are you using the latest Nvidia Driver? Is it just as comfortable using an external display?

                                                    This is sadly out of my price range for now however good to know that a new piece of tech is working for you.

                                                    Who do we flame to understand the science behind why this device works and others don't?

                                                        dev