first, a quick Google search showed the presence of the entity NVRAM in UEFI BIOS(not CMOS)

NVRAM is a special data area that stores those UEFI variables that have the Non-Volatile attribute set. The most popular variables of this kind are Setup, which stores most of the current settings from the BIOS Setup

you can try to view these variables from EFI SHELL, http://www.opslib.com/2012/01/efi-shell-commands.html

dmpstore     -- Displays all NVRAM variables

set         -- Displays, creates, changes or deletes

default         -- Sets, Resets, or Clears default NVM values

pci         -- Displays PCI devices or PCI function config space

maybe the names of the variables will tell you something about setting dithering..

and secondly (for example), the AFUDOS flashing utility has an additional key /N - clear NVRAM

This is not an instruction manual, the utilities for flashing and the procedures for flashing the firmware itself are very different for different MB

    glvn

    Are you implying it's possible to stop dithering by changing nvram variables ?

    • glvn replied to this.

        Liberator005

        I'm trying to logically understand where the dithering setting can be saved if a clean reinstallation of the operating system does not help with this (and reflashing the VBIOS too).

        NVRAM - suitable place for this

        AgentX20

        "Load BIOS defaults" or ClearCMOS in modern UEFI BIOS should perform some kind of cleaning of the nvram, but I’m not sure that a complete cleaning of this area is performed. You can try this before reflashing MB bios.

        "I am still getting bad eye strain" Is there this feeling on the UEFI BIOS setup screen?

              glvn

              Maybe the dithering setting is just hardwired in the gpu hardware ?

              Though if the software "ditherig" works (at least with intel gpus), it must be changing the setting somewhere. Could the software "ditherig" have access to nvram values ?

              • glvn replied to this.

                  BloodyHell should sell their machine, and start over from scratch with a different machine.

                  Liberator005

                  Maybe the dithering setting is just hardwired in the gpu hardware ?

                  Maybe … BUT, AgentX20 say:

                  (Win 10 1511, 970 card and driver version 391.55). Now this has been a good strain-free setup for a long time now

                  I've got backups…

                  just this one time I'd try a newer driver… 411 something… uh-oh eye strain feelings detected

                  Next, I rolled back with a bare metal restore from backup. And… it STILL felt off.

                  I've now done a ground up OS installer rebuild of my PC - exact same hardware and using the same Win 10 1511 OS installer as was working OK for me before. … Sadly, I am still getting bad eye strain.

                  I did try reflashing both VBIOS with the same version so see if that helped but no joy there.

                  …seems like dithering was not originally hardwired

                  This is just my guess, but this is how I imagine the sequence of changing dithering as a variable for the programmer:

                  a) the initial value of the variable from the video bios (or video chip hardware), in old cards is not set or is set as OFF

                  b) a variable in the uefi nvram of the motherboard, the initial value is inherited from point a) or is forcibly set to ON by “new” motherboards because it is useful for “image beauty”. This can try to explain the fact that “good” video cards perform “good” on old MBs but “bad” on new ones (including even before loading the OS).

                  c) a graphics pipeline consisting of the OS(version), graphics driver, DWM, registry, color profile settings and M$ knows what else…. Or perhaps it inherits the initial dither value from b), or perhaps new operating systems are simply forced to be set to ON for “image beauty” on modern cheap (6-bit) monitors. This can try to explain why dithering is enabled more often on “new” OS/drivers. Why the state of the variable is then stored in b), (if this is at all possible), I cannot explain. This is all despite the fact that MS/Nvidia technical support denies the very fact of dithering.

                  .. too many "perhaps" (

                        Liberator005 Could the software "ditherig" have access to nvram values ?

                        as far as I understand - NO

                        this software only changes the state of the current graphics pipeline( point c) ), and only until the next reboot (or video mode change??)

                        p.s. "access to nvram values" from os/driver - just my guess, but how else can you explain the persistence of dithering after a complete reinstallation of the OS?

                            glvn

                            glvn p.s. "access to nvram values" from os/driver - just my guess, but how else can you explain the persistence of dithering after a complete reinstallation of the OS?

                            Indeed. Or does it change something in the vbios. But apparently AgentX20 tried reflashing the vbios with no effect. Well, if that's the case maybe changing the nvram values will do something (is it possible and easy to change nvram values ?).

                                  First off, I have to say that for me the ditheting is also there in the BIOS screen and I am not saying this just from getting eyestrain because I now have a microscope and I have recorded the dithering.

                                  Here's the video I recorded of my PC dithering (this exact dithering is there both in BIOS and also any OS I have installed):

                                  https://youtube.com/shorts/5YmCl4NVrB0?si=HOucTdqZxj74wWgw

                                  And I also want to add that its by far the most horrific degree of dithering I have personally observed with my microscope on any device :"(.

                                  This stuff about NVRAM is really interesting. this must be the key.

                                  I am pretty sure there is something thats getting written to the mobo that does not get effected with BIOS updates.

                                  glvn a) the initial value of the variable from the video bios (or video chip hardware), in old cards is not set or is set as OFF

                                  b) a variable in the uefi nvram of the motherboard, the initial value is inherited from point a) or is forcibly set to ON by “new” motherboards because it is useful for “image beauty”. This can try to explain the fact that “good” video cards perform “good” on old MBs but “bad” on new ones (including even before loading the OS).

                                  This is exactly what I'm thinking too. And I also think the reason that we cannot set it OFF after it goes on is because no software or hardware command has ever been defined to tell the card to turn the dithering OFF. If it turns ON on a card theres no command defined ever to set it OFF again.

                                      Liberator005 Yes I too tried reflashing 2 of my cards vBIOSs but it didn't do anything. I even tried flashing the vBIOS of a different card onto my GT1030 but that didn't help either.

                                      I also really desparetly want to know if there is a way to change stuff in NVRAM or to factory restore it. My mobo is an x470-f.

                                        Very important to consider that the eyes also change how they respond. From February 2022 to Dec 2022 I was not able to tolerate any screen, except my old Lenovo x280. Suddenly in January after a year of patching, I started to notice that I don't get any strain anymore from the TV's or mobile phone I use.

                                        Now I can even use Honor Magic Pro 5 without any strain.

                                        So it's not always that the devices change or there is a change in the software. The eyes change how they respond.

                                        Though I have zero idea what caused my eyes to malfunction and what brought them back and even got them to a level that is better than before. The only thing is the tadalafil that removed the last bit of strain with the Honor.

                                        glvn I reflashed my motherboard BIOS to two different versions (the same as is there now and a newer version) and after loading defaults, I still have the terrible eye strain…

                                        And of course I've already tried reflashing the VBIOS (both copies on the card).

                                        Argh…

                                            AgentX20 I still have the terrible eye strain…

                                            I'm sorry, but what is the model name of your motherboard?

                                                glvn I'm sorry, but what is the model name of your motherboard?

                                                ASUS Z97 DELUXE

                                                  Seagull This is not recorded from a video it is recorded from a still image so dithering should be happening every frame as far as I know.

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                                                        BloodyHell619

                                                        Dithering can happen every frame, but it varies by colour. See the research here GPU Dithering - LEDStrain Forum

                                                        The reason is quite intuitive. Let say a device can display light blue and dark blue. If it wanted to display medium blue it could alternate every frame light -> dark -> light -> dark.

                                                        But lets say if wanted to display a light-medium blue, then it would be light -> light -> dark -> light -> light -> dark.

                                                        If you are seeing the same frequency flicker on every colour you film, its more likely to be LCD inversion than dithering. You can use the colour card in the above post to test this.

                                                        EDIT: to add, dithering is usually random, so you should be seeing something like this: 3frames light, 5frames dark, 1frame light, 2frames dark etc

                                                            Seagull That post is so informative and interesting.

                                                            One thing though. Isn't pixel inversion something that the monitor does not the system? Because when I connect this monitor to the old laptop of mine which I am able to use with no eyestrain there is not this kinda of flicker going on at all when I observe the monitor with a microscop.

                                                            I'm really starting to think that what you said in that post is really true (If, hopefully, I understood it correctly.). Today I tested my Galaxy Grand 2 which doesn't strain me with a microscope and even on that I see a little degree of this pixel flickering. So either I am entirely wrong and just detecting pixel inversion or just as you said the dithering method itself makes a massive difference.

                                                            It's like every device is dithering but the way and degree of which they do it makes all the difference.

                                                            By the way are you yourself sensetive to dithering and what devices do you use if so?

                                                              a month later

                                                              Just a small data point about my hassles above. I have a picture file that I used to use to check that my system wasn't dithering - clearly showing very clear banding within colour gradients on my previously working system setup.

                                                              I just opened the image last night and lo and behold the banding appears to be gone…

                                                              So in my case, despite the fact that I am back on my full working image (OS, drivers, hardware etc), upgrading the OS and video drivers, then rolling it ALL back to a previous OS backup, it has left me with a video card that is now dithering by default.

                                                              dev