Dadab12

I don't know about buying activation keys. I gave up on using windows 10 enterprise LTSC 1809 without activation key and using linux mint for browsing, documents, etc on the T480s. I only have experience with the T480s model not the regular T480 model without the s. I know the T480s is thinner and lighter than the T480.

I bought it used from ebay as it is an obsolete model with the WQHD 2560x1440s display and no nvidia gpu configuration. It came with windows 10 pro pre-installed. This is a computer from 2018 and should be much less expensive than "modern" ThinkPads. Perhaps others can recommend a safe windows 10 version to use that will automatically activate with the T480s.

Booted temporarlly into windows 10 pro and I use hwinfo to determine the panel model and I then bought another panel (B140QAN02.3 also bought from ebay) and swapped out the original lg panel (LP140QH2-SPB1) it came out. Worth the trouble for me as I measure less pixel flicker under the microscope with the alternate panel. Here is where how I learned to swap out the panel. Edit: less but not no pixel flicker and strangely the pixel flicker gets worse as the screen is used over the course of the day. Then the next day/morning, the screen would flicker less again.

My concern is panel lottery and what works for me might not work for everyone. But then this is why folks here are constantly trying out multiple different computers and configurations.

    My thinking is that the more screentime you have, the more you are damaging yourself and the longer the required recovery period even if the screen is technically "perfect" as far as one could objectively measure with current tools and theories. Of course, some are better than others. Even with knowing some guidelines (no flicker, no harsh blue light, etc.) it is still hit and miss and a trial and error process of finding what works.

    For myself, I've never noticed significant eyestrain problems until 2022. Over the years, I've used multiple "bad" screens (from crts to ccfl backlights to cheap PWM led backlight monitors) from laptops and desktops that we would consider junk by today's technical standards and those didn't really bother me before. Definitely the tech has changed (hardware in step with software) perhaps with unintended bad consequences and the same with the living environment and the rhythms of daily life.

    However, I have changed as well. Gotten weaker over time from stress, overwork, missed opportunities for rest and exercise and the all important recovery from any insult to the body. Perhaps screens I was able to adapt to and tolerate are not anymore due to these cumulative health changes.

    My ongoing search for personal health solutions:

    Take breaks (I've already mentioned doing the 20-20-20 rule)

    Deep relaxation breathing is essential for stress recovery and energy and oxygenation to body and eyeballs

    Massage type exercises you can do yourself not just from physical therapist etc. For example pressure points around your eyes, temple, neck, back of your head. Also, don't forget to blink.

    Diet and foods to help promote normal blood circulation and detox. I've also mentioned before the eye, liver, kidney connection.

    Others are recommending eye patching and special glasses beyond the typical blue light blocking type. Lots of info on this forum.

    Some sites to help find "your" monitor (always check and cross check the info):

    https://pcmonitors.info/

    https://www.displaydb.com/

    https://www.displayspecifications.com/en

    https://www.displayninja.com/

    photon78s The forum member DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs mentioned the 2012 Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga with Win8.1 as safe here:

    FYI, the laptop is only completely safe when ditherig.exe is running with disable all dithering functions checked

    By default, without ditherig there is some temporal dithering that I can notice that interferes with reading long lines of text (although even by default it's still better than so many other laptops lol)

    But thankfully, it can be entirely disabled with ditherig and become an entirely safe laptop!

        photon78s

        Tinkering with the Legion, I noticed that the colors, brightness changes when I switch between modes (quiet, balanced and performance). The best mode for my eyes in quiet. I don't understand what is happening.

        Also, I'm pretty sure my eyes like the UHD graphics more than the dGPU option. Especially on quiet mode.

        There is also a possibility that something changes when i unplug the laptop from the battery source. I'm trying to figure out how to configure the laptop so it doesn't change monitor settings when switching between all modes. I know there is an option, but can't figure it out.

            Dadab12

            Very important that you point out that has eye effects. It sounds to me quiet mode, by prioritizing energy saving and less fan noise, modifies the graphics routines as well?

            Previously, the performance modes is something I leave on balanced all the time. In quiet mode, I don't like the power button LED turning blue.

            So now you prefer the dynamic bios setting over discrete? Unplugging does sets limits for performance and tells the gpu and cpu it will not have enough power to play with. Like setting quiet mode, not sure it has an impact on dithering that I have to look into. Unplugged, you will not have access to performance mode only balanced and quiet?

            Do you have the latest BIOS updates? Perhaps, it would be good to check if you can rollback to older BIOS version in case some update causes undesired changes. Their should be a setting in BIOS to enable rollback called "BIOS Flash Back" or something similar for your model.

            Similarly, my T480s is comfortable and running on and only has UHD graphics of an older generation (UHD Graphics 620 versus Intel UHD Graphics 770 for your Legion)

              photon78s I don't know what mine is. I'm so scared to try the legion 😅 I am still in a flareup idk why!! I'm going to get a upper cervical adjustment with the atlas orthogonal technique soon and see if it helps. My C1 and c3/4 seem to have alot of instability, doesn't hold long. Eyes are very blurry/slight double vision at the moment.

              So is the Intel UHD graphics better to use on quiet mode then?

                  jordan

                  I personally don't feel a difference between quiet mode and balanced running on iGPU or discrete. Looks like Dadab12 prefers iGPU and quiet mode. I have found that ditherig works or at least has an visual effect on the iGPU of my 7i using blooey's banding test chart. Disabling all dithering in ditherig produces noticeable light red and greenish artifacts. Enabling temporal dithering from ditherig produces naked eye visible waves moving across the 7 to 12 bit bands (maybe even 6 bit band hard to see). This effect is visible only in 60hz mode.

                  I pray everything goes well with your procedure!

                      photon78s it's so frustrating because I won't know what works if I don't try but then if I flare up I'll feel even worse than I do now for weeks to months since it takes awhile to recover. I think that hp omen 27q true 8 bit that I have may be a safer option so that's what I should test soon now that it's after Easter lol. Just gotta decide between my precision 7820 xeon 4216 /rtx 5000, 13600k/Intel arc a770, or 10900kf/rtx 4000. I guess to is decide on what OS to run. I'm leaning towards win7 to start and then 1809 maybe after?

                      I did get a rtx 4090 MSI suprim X recently for my crypto mining rig so I'll have that to test
                      ...eventually... Lol

                      The legion unsure if that's a good option right now.

                      I appreciate that brother 🙏🏻
                      I can tell when my neck is out of alignment because my vision will be more blurry as well as other symptoms. Good tell sign visually is looking in a mirror and noticing if one shoulder is lower than the other. I guess too if one leg is longer than the other. Do you have neck issues btw?

                          jordan

                          It seems we are still discovering new things and quirks with the 7is all the time.

                          It just seems to me older OS, drivers, and hardware are a "safer" starting point than the 7i. Obviously it makes sense to me to have recovered as much as possible before doing any risky testing.

                            photon78s Not sure what exact panel, but I know that it's a 6bit panel (which by default, is temporally dithered to 8bit entirely by the GPU, and not by the panel itself, quite uniquely)

                            This means that even this "FRC" can be entirely disabled with ditherig.exe, which will reveal the panel's true 6bit form. Suddenly banding will appear everywhere, even on photo wallpapers, with RGB precision cut in half.

                            Which makes it very clear that it is a 6bit panel and can actually be used in "true 6bit" if dithering is disabled

                            BTW just as a disclaimer I do suspect the display does have some level of PWM — but for whatever reason it does not seem to hurt text readability, focus, or productivity for me at all despite me usually having problems with pretty much all other PWM on TVs, phones, monitors, and lightbulbs.

                            It was already generally good for the 11 years I've owned it, and it's only became even better after finally realizing I could disable dithering — since now, not even long lines of text shimmer at all!

                            May not the best choice for someone like jordan though with a lot more serious symptoms from PWM.

                            But for me, it checks all the boxes for being able to see a ton on the screen at once, think productively, stay focused, not get tired, use the computer fast without getting motion sick at all — it just totally works for me for some reason.

                            Maybe it's due to some different style of scanning used for the PWM instead of the whole screen flashing at the same time? Or maybe it just has a much more comfortable backlight spectrum? No idea, but it's dither-free — and if it works, it works.

                                jordan

                                My man, I have Ehlers Danlos, so I know neck instability.

                                I have so many weird eye symptoms. Extreme visual snow, double vision that comes and goes, vision that at times is much worse than others.

                                It's a terrible predicament to be in.. I also have more health problems and I can barely think clearly at this point. I have dementia like symptoms.

                                Anyways, I hope you get your spine better. I think i'm a lost cause lol. And i'm in so much agony trying to figure out what I should do with this laptop, return it or not. It also underperforms below average and the battery life even on the intergrated graphics and 60hz is sub par. And the Wi-Fi sucks. I do wonder if I should try to exchange it for another legion, perhaps it's a laptop/panel lottery.

                                Also, can I fresh install windows without being fucked by the return policy/warranty?

                                What other laptops are available that are strong enough? I don't want to be relegated to an old laptop.

                                  photon78s

                                  I still have a week to return my laptop.

                                  Does 'Ditherig' void the warranty? it says something about it on the site.

                                      Dadab12

                                      I don't understand how it should void the warranty. It should not at all affect the warranty. I have ditherig running without problems. Remember, ditherig is for your laptop's iGPU and the colorcontrol program is for your nvidia dGPU.

                                        dev