Daylight_Co
Whether or not I win the raffle, I would love to try out one of your tablets using whatever mechanism is available i.e. tester, sale tryout period, etc.

    magi44ken I don't know for sure, but it seems that the color gimmicks, i.e. Temporal Dithering and of course PWM are the things that irritate the eyes.

    There seems to be zero effort on producing a flicker free display, but yet there are many who complain about dry eyes. We should get people to realize that it is not a problem of lubrication in the eyes, it is a problem of flickering light. It is also not a blue light problem. While there is some evidence that blue light in large quantities is not good for the eyes long term, it is not the source of acute eye strain. This can be easily tested by anyone, using a total blue blocker glasses or just very dark sunglasses. If it was blue light, then the glasses would solve our problem, but it does not.

    I'm afraid these companies are just out to prey on people like us, trying to capitalize on the blue light problem.

    But yeah, I'm open to trying this device, too, but seeing is believing.

      I would love one. If I won, I'd do an unboxing review on YouTube. It would be awesome to not have blue light in a device. My eyes are sensitive to led lights so it would be great.

      Daylight_Co So, our pixels do not emit light, which means there is no flicker

      No light emission does not mean no flicker.

      For example, I own a BOOX e-reader with Android that I run almost all of the time with the screen frontlight disabled, meaning it's purely naturally illuminated.

      Since the screen can only display literally black and white, meaning no shades of grayscale (unless it's set to the really slow HD mode, where it actually does display real gray), it uses dithering in order to display shades of gray.

      Thankfully, when it's still, it doesn't refresh with nothing happening (because e-ink doesn't need to)

      But whenever I'm scrolling, or something on the screen is animated, the dithering of these shades of gray then starts needing to recalculate itself every single frame. This causes really obvious flicker, twitching edges of text, etc. while the screen is in motion, even though there is no backlight.

      Thankfully, it's not that bad for me on the BOOX because this is only happening when the screen is moving anyway (because my problems are usually related to when this happens while the screen is supposed to be still)

      But if your screen is constantly running at 60fps, there can 100% be sources of possible flicker introduced at the pixel level that aren't related to having or not having a backlight.

          DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs that's true with eink I can't use it due to how it dithers.

          With you saying with no backlight involved and can still flicker, you mean dithering right or do you also mean inversion?

            worth trying of course.

            although even e-ink didn't work for me (actually e-ink is even worse than LCD for some weird reason).

              jordan You're totally correct that e-ink dithers in various implementations of Fast / Super Refresh modes, but one place e-ink doesn't dither is in "HD mode". When you're using HD mode to force it to a super slow framerate, you can still get real shades of gray (with heavy banding) and a higher resolution.

              However, in HD mode, you instead sometimes get those full screen flashes when refreshing or turning pages, which may bother some people (even though it doesn't bother me that much).

              (In edge cases, you can also still get a glitchy "inverting from black to white effect" in HD mode that definitely looks flickery if you try to "force a smooth animation or scrolling to activate" instead of static page transitions)

                  jordan Hypothetically, 120hz e-ink would probably still need full refresh pretty frequently since ghosting would likely remain an issue

                  Also given that the only way we've managed to surpass slow Kindle-like refresh speeds so far is with fast modes that use dithering, dither-free fast modes in general still seems to be out of reach for the tech

                  Btw, since I mentioned Kindles, I think it would be helpful to document here that the reason why the Kindle Paperwhite causes strain is due to it constantly keeping the backlight on even at the very lowest level of the slider. The backlight actually cannot be disabled.

                  However, in comparison, the Kindle Oasis (whatever model was latest in early 2022) feels incredible to read — one reason is because the backlight actually can be turned off on this specific model, unlike the Paperwhite.

                  I also swear that the Oasis screen panel or anti reflective coating just feels much crisper and sharper to my eyes in general compared to the Paperwhite, even when backlight is enabled.

                      DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs there was some kind of hack allowing you to completely turn off backlight for Kindle. still, in my case, that doesn't help. but that's mostly because of my eye problem I guess.

                        4 days later

                        I personally love Hisense's e-ink phones on smooth mode. The backlight was what bugged me but I can always turn it off. So far, I've been looking into (and lamenting the lack of) smooth e-ink tablets. I wanted a bigger screen for manga and videos and not have to strain the heck out of my eyes. Sadly there's none available… so I guess I can forward to this one?

                        DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs
                        I was under the impression that the Kindle Paperwhite was flicker/PWM free? Granted I couldn't actually find a definitive answer either way the last time I looked and no measurements either but the consensus was that the front lights didn't use PWM.

                        It would be helpful to know if anyone has any info on this as I bought one recently but have been wary of using it. For what it's worth it doesn't seem to have triggered any eyestrain symptoms for me so far although I've only used it sparingly and besides my symptoms are varied and not always immediate so it's always difficult to know the cause given how much flickering lighting we are exposed to daily. Some light only gives me brain fog (inflammation) which can also be difficult to notice when it's mild and comes and goes. All I can do at the moment is eliminate known sources of flicker from my life as much as I can.

                        (Apologies to the OP for the offtopic post but every thread on here seems to branch tangentially so I thought it wouldn't hurt

                        For what it's worth I'm looking forward to more info about this tablet and eventually some testing. More products promoting and raising awareness about eye health are a good thing as long as they do what they promise to do.)

                          10 days later

                          Curious about seeing video performance and flickering. Cool concept tough if it works.

                          a month later

                          I once tried to read the entire internet in a day. My eyes went on strike and demanded better working conditions.

                          No flicker, no lag, no blue light... are you sure you didn't make a deal with a wizard or something? Because this sounds like sorcery to me. But hey, I'm willing to be enchanted

                          I'm thrilled with your approach to the display and can't wait to try it. I've been on a quest to optimize my reading experience across various devices. Right now, I'm excited about my new OLED iPad with the nanotexture coating. Based on my in-store experiences, it's been fantastic at reducing glare (one of my issues), almost like e-ink. It should arrive in June.

                          I also use a Boox Tab Ultra C and keep my desktop's OLED displays on dark mode for better reading. I still have fond memories of the Palm Pilot days and their displays. I'm excited to see how your device enhances the reading experience.

                          @sjix

                          I would love to have this! I’m trying to finish my degree and I also have eye trouble with most devices at the moment, so all of that is on pause. If this works for me that would be amazing!!

                          I'm a video editor and bought the Dasung Colour eink as my fall back just incase… but it's not really possible to video edit on the Dasung, if there was ability to use yours as a monitor it looks like it would work perfectly for video editing!!

                          The product seems interesting, I hope it be successful so the technology could develop more and be accessible to more users

                          I've been using a Remarkable 1 since its original release and have been looking for an upgrade. Curious to see how this turns out.

                          Stoked on this device. I'm a software engineer and spend a lot of time reading on my kindle about various technologies and tech related news. However, not being able to watch videos or scroll the web easily is a hindrance. Would love to try this out

                          I'm always was a lover of E-Ink technology. And all device made with that technology for me was always a destruction free things. But one thing that always destruct me in this "destruction free" devices is re-rendering pages. Yesterday I saw you device for a first time. And I immediately felt in love. I want to try it so hard, but sadly for now can't afford it. I was never winner in such "giveaways", so usually I'm not even trying. But I so hyped with this Daylight, so I decided to try my luck once again. Because it's looks unbelievable, I'm still not fully believe my eyes that this is E-Ink. I'm skeptical, but really want to try it out. Maybe this device and this type of display will be problem solver for me. I hope for the first time I'll win this giveaway 🙂

                          Daylight_Co

                          Would love to test this product or maybe even win the giveaway. This it what social media company’s don’t want since it doesn’t have bright exciting content. Happy to see you guys creating this

                            Eagerly awaiting some reviews of this one, and maybe, being a lucky winner!
                            Will it be available at any brick and mortar stores? I live in NYC, and trying one out in person sounds wonderful.

                            Daylight_Co

                            Hi,
                            I stumbled upon Daylight DC-1 because I came across a tweet yesterday debating that the device is too cool to be real. Decided to do some reading and it does seem doable.

                            Is this the same (but upgraded) display tech that has powered calculators and digital watches for a long time?

                              5 days later

                              Hello guys, I would love to participate in the Giveaway.
                              My story is the same old: I can’t stand the PWM brightness control.
                              As for a recommendation for your device: I just hope you don’t forget about the 3.5mm audio jack. I really miss it in modern devices. That’s the reason why I keep myself away from companies like Onyx. I hope this helps you to find a niche. See ya.

                              I would like to try the Daylight! Recently (and by recently I mean a couple of months) I've been struggling with almost daily headaches and tired eyes since I'm an online schooled student. I will be studying computer science this year... which... is exciting, but not so much for my eyes I guess xD! The product looks great (and the website looks so cool)! I have heard concerns about the CPU not being able to handle certain applications though. It's not that bad, right? Also, can it act as a second monitor? So that I can just plug my laptop into it (though of course for now the resolutions are not big enough I think for tasks like coding?) and just use it as my primary monitor!? That would be cool. I know Onyx has this monitor line, but they are EXPENSIVE - definitely for the soon-to-be-broke college student xD!

                              dev