Hello Everyone, I posted this as a reply to another thread, and think it is worth posting as its own topic: I have recently started experimenting with something new and have been obtaining very interesting results. The method is to hold a medium sized rock in your hand while using the device, or afterwards after the appearance of symptoms. My speculation is that those of us who have this problem do not have sufficient connection with the earth. There are negative energies that are emitted by these devices which we do not sufficiently understand, and which are probably not sufficiently measurable with the means currently available to us. The connection with the earth, or grounding to the earth, serves to flush out a certain amount of these energies. For those of us in whom this natural connection to the earth is lacking to a sufficient degree for whatever reason, the energies are not flushed out and thus give rise to the various and variegated symptoms that we all report. I speculate that the reason no one has been able to find a root cause or causes for this problem on this forum over its 10 plus years of existence is that we are looking in the wrong place, and because this root cause is not sufficiently measurable or materially ascertainable at the present time. Holding a rock appears to help with this grounding, this connection to the earth. I have only began experimenting with this yesterday. The results so far: holding a medium-sized rock after a mildish but definitely noticeable trigger (looking briefly a few times at my Samsung tablet screen, which if I'm not very careful causes me terrible symptoms) resulted in the disappearance of the symptoms after a short time. Holding the same rock while reading text continuously for some time on my laptop screen lessened the symptoms compared to what they would usually be, but mild symptoms appeared nonetheless. After then looking away from the screen and continuing to hold the rock, the symptoms disappeared after a relatively short time. Note that the size of the rock I have been using is roughly that of a tennis ball, and is somewhat heavy to hold in the hand (but not uncomfortably so). I'm sure many people are going to find this method strange, and inexplicable within the framework of the current predominant positivist, scientistic worldview. If you would like to give it a go and, together with me, give this a trial run, I would be very interested to hear your results.

daniels It is legitimate view and I am glad you did mention it as grounding is part of an issue I believe. And to be absolutely honest my first ever weird symptom was feeling ungrounded when using electronics. On another hand there are so many other factors to consider like energy of a location, air pleasure, humidity, social context, stress etc. Also with this point of view we could think of electronics influence nervous system and block some of the energies, chacras or whatever, which suppose to have all energetic fields aligned with nature or with the earth.

Sorry but this is pseudoscience nonsense

bluetail Not per se, but if you consider it broadly from third perspective looking down on a person - various triggers initially cause various reactions as perceived by the person - let it be ungrounding, or other feelings categorized as such. This however does not imply that cause is - being ungrounded, which can mean a lot - e.g. hypersensitive person reactive to its environment in various ways, literally getting exposure to electrical fields, psychological / emotional state of mind, etc. Lets be open minded here, common subjective (unscientific) symptoms may allow us to cluster the causes, since it is unlikely that most people here have the same cause for the shared symptoms. And eye strain could be a caused by many things alone such as anxiety disorders, depression disorders, eye problems, various stressors in relation to not so perfect hardware we all are using etc.

Tuck See my post below for an actual example related to this + more specific explanation. I kinda think they're on to something with the general idea of touch affecting vision, but IMO are using a too niche/specific concept to explain it. What I disagree with to the original poster is that it will "ONLY" work with a specifically organic object like a rock and of course I'm skeptical about the earth thing, but I still had a pretty similar experience a few years ago: > daniels Holding a rock appears to help with this grounding, this connection to the earth. I have only begun experimenting with this today. LOL I used to do this back when I was stuck with a terrible mini-LED MBP. I had to hold something in my other hand to be able to even barely tolerate that screen (it didn't matter if it was organic, just smooth, I could hold a USB mouse made from smooth plastic in my pocket and get the same effect. Of course I used a polished stone sometimes too. Interested to know if it keeps working for you even with non-natural objects as long as they're smooth) What you're touching seems to directly affect the ways your eyes process things somehow. Sometimes it's the opposite -- I've noticed that on all "bad laptop screens" when I press ctrl or shift repeatedly with my left pinky, the screen will go in and out of focus constantly. On some bad screens I have to do this to tolerate reading, but on others doing this actually causes some sharp eyestrain. In that case its probably my eyes trying to watch my finger in my peripheral vision, moving slightly, and whatever weird stuff the screen is doing is getting processed in a slightly different way. (a similar one is that I can see LCD inversion and temporal dithering whenever I move my head, but not when I'm still) However, on my "actually good" (low-to-no strain) laptop screens, that effect doesn't happen at all lol, I can mash a key and the screen 95% of the time text will stay just as crisp and the strain level doesn't change. (Although, I do notice the very corners of my vision outside of the screen slightly fading while doing this…)

Donux And eye strain could be a caused by many things alone such as anxiety disorders, depression disorders, eye problems, various stress Not necessarily. I think the reason 50%+ of us are even here is that we already checked our eyes (and probably were told they were actually either "fine" or even "above average"), multiple doctors, checked other factors like mood, diet, sleep, and trying to exercise more and discovered that the screen issues (and by extension, their longer-lasting effect on the way you process vision even in the real world) were entirely separate. Possibly even tried multiple types of vision therapy (like I did) and nothing , and what FINALLY changed anything significant about the "mystery vision issues" was switching the screen. When I'm on a truly good screen (not just a tolerable one), it literally doesn't matter how I feel, how much sleep, how much stress, I can still look at it and read it fine pretty much no matter what. (However, how I feel can affect how bad a bad screen is — but even on days I felt otherwise amazing back then, I still could not tolerate my mini-LED Macbook Pro for more than 15 minutes.) Also, for me, I've noticed that so many (many but not all, of course) of the "issues I have processing vision in the real world" and general fatigue + constant tiredness I was dealing with actually go away after I use a truly good LCD, and remain fine until I use a bad screen, so screens have a significant "trailing effect that basically retrains your brain" that extends after you use them, but interestingly can also be "overwritten" pretty quickly by using a good screen. (The one exception is non-backlit like e-ink, which "takes on the general profile" of the last screen I used before it but with a mild-to-moderate improvement. Back when I only used bad screens, I still had fatigue reading on e-ink or even paper . Some "vision issues" I used to think "weren't screen related" — such as eyes wanting to close when standing still — remained afterwards. But when I FINALLY found a good backlit LCD , I realized just a day or two on it "retrains/resets my vision" and I can see soooo well in real life after using it, and e-ink/paper starts feeling way more readable too)

daniels There are negative energies that are emitted What specifically did you use to identify and measure "negative energies?" Be very specific so everyone can replicate your "negative energies" detector experiment.

Grounding to the earth: does this help you too?

moonpie

Donux Not per se, but if you consider it broadly from third perspective

OP literally wants you to hold rocks to cure "negative energies."

Donux

moonpie Like back tourmaline for example. It has grounding effect, and from pure scientific view it has some unique electrical properties. As far as I can recall - it does absorb EMF fields and humans do emit EMF too. I am wondering, what happens to your body, if you hold your hands on a macbook, that is plugged into a socket without grounding cable. Surely it is harmless for short time, but if you stay like this for tens of hours per day, it will affect your body. It can cause fatigue, skin issues etc. Many things I read in this forum screams to me EMF. And not just WIFI which may contribute to chest pain people are writing about, but also screen itself, which beyond visible light emit other forms of EMF.

Sunspark

Holding a rock won't do anything for me, but if it helps you then you should do it.

For me, I want to try putting a grounding strap on my foot and plugging it into a power outlet and see how sleeping goes. I'll get around to it.

wlmsn

Are you connected to the ground or are you just holding the rock? I think you'd need to be barefoot on the ground for it to work (or using a grounding pad).

I have a grounding theory unrelated to eye strain - I have a major issue with dairy (causes joint pain) but on vacation I always went to an ice cream place with my kids so I go anyway, consequences be damned. We spent the day at the beach and I got a huge ice cream, and was fine. I got nachos the next day, ice cream again and nachos the next day... felt completely fine the entire time. Came home and thought my dairy issue was gone, had a gluten free pizza with real cheese and bam, all my joints swelled up like arthritis.

I spent 8+ hours on the beach/ocean and was totally fine with dairy repeatedly, then spent none grounded and was in pain after one meal. Could be something else but I've been wondering if grounding had something to do with it. From what I've read about it, it helps with inflammation which is really the issue at play here.

daniels

wlmsn "I spent 8+ hours on the beach/ocean and was totally fine with dairy repeatedly, then spent none grounded and was in pain after one meal."

This is fascinating, thank you for sharing!

Sunspark

Was it a different country you went to?

wlmsn

Sunspark no, it was in coastal Maine (I live in NY)

Donux

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs I can relate to that, especially fatigue. It was pretty bad for me when only machine I had was macbook and it lasted for a while. Even after using "proper" or maybe somewhat tolerable screen, I had to go through a lot of weird symptoms before I could really say I feel much much better. But the very first ever symptom I had was - feeling ungrounded. Walking bare foot on the sand near the beach - always helped. This may be not a primary cause, but when you have issues accumulating in your nervous system, you have to deal with them one by one at the moment. One interesting way to hack your brain and nervous system is to use two laptop setup, literally working with both one on the left another on the right. This I believe increases neuroplasticity, specially for power users who are pretty much cyborgs nowadays.

daniels

Donux "But the very first ever symptom I had was - feeling ungrounded. Walking bare foot on the sand near the beach - always helped."

Very interesting!

moonpie

Donux emit other forms of EMF.

The OP knows it is "negative energies" and has a device that measures "negative energies."

daniels There are negative energies that are emitted

ensete

Touching a rock will not "ground" you. An electrical ground needs to have a path to the earth. If I hold a rock, that rock is surrounded by air, which is an insulator.

I don't know what is meant by "negative energies". Monitors and display do emit light energy, but that energy does not "stick" to you or require a connection to ground to clear.

This entire post makes no sense. Any relief you get from holding a rock is going to be psychosomatic, but psychosomatic relief is relief so if it works for you, hold all the rocks you want.

inexplicable within the framework of the current predominant positivist, scientistic worldview.

I don't know what you mean by "positivist scientist worldview" but this is basic electrical knowledge. If you want to ACTUALLY ground yourself, you can touch the metal screw of a light switch cover. That screws into the yoke of the light switch which provides a path to ground. This is why you can get a shock touching alight switch on a cold dry day.

Donux

ensete Ensete, there is a place in that scientifically measure your Aura. I have learned a lot from one dude who is developing EMF protecting clothing in cooperation with universities. Apparently, EMF protecting clothing has unexpected negative consequence, it blocks EMFs from outside world, but it also blocks human body EMF too. We are one with our environment, and we are not some sort of walking vacuums. But to get into this mindset, one would really need to spend more time in nature and to understand how normal state fells like. So generally there is more than it meets the eye or whatever that saying is.

daniels

ensete I don't know what you mean by "positivist scientist worldview" but this is basic electrical knowledge. If you want to ACTUALLY ground yourself, you can touch the metal screw of a light switch cover. That screws into the yoke of the light switch which provides a path to ground. This is why you can get a shock touching alight switch on a cold dry day.

Different concept of grounding. The confusion is certainly understandable.

qb74

daniels

The method is to hold a medium sized rock in your hand while using the device, or afterwards after the appearance of symptoms.

The only thing which could be happening is your skin absorbing what's on the rock's surface, there's no grounding involved.

My speculation is that those of us who have this problem do not have sufficient connection with the earth. There are negative energies that are emitted by these devices which we do not sufficiently understand, and which are probably not sufficiently measurable with the means currently available to us.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but grounding is heavily deconstructed in the engineering industry and it's not something "we don't sufficiently understand"
There are no "energies" (as in, chakra / voodoo stuff that's pushed by people that preach "grounding" on social media) being "flushed out"

I will however say that electrical grounding of your electronics (especially for headphones, keyboard, mice, since they're in direct contact with our bodies) is a good thing and bad grounding can cause a myriad of issues for PC's (and electronics as a whole), along with potential health concerns. (emitted electric fields, RF emission,...)
In fact, bad grounding could potentially affect monitor timings and monitor voltages (perhaps even oscillating the backlight in extreme cases? I personally haven't seen this documented, but think of brownouts in a sense)
Ever felt tingling from a aluminium keyboard during PC use? That's bad grounding.
It means the device emits a electrical field (measured in V/m) which is in very unsafe ranges.
(note: Do not use devices such as the Trifeld, Safe&Sound Pro & similar ones to measure this, they're insufficient and somewhat of a scam compared to real solutions made by Rohde & Schwarz, Telcroy, Keysight,...)

I do however believe that walking with non-insulating shoes on grass (leather-bottom shoes for example, as I find walking bare foot grotesque) or walking on sand (bare foot or with aforementioned shoes) are a good health practice and should be practiced by everybody a few times a week.

Donux

qb74 Quantum mechanics would support daniels idea. But not sure if we are going into a deep end here 🙂 Otherwise I might open that wine bottle right now to smooth it out a bit to avoid brain overload 🙂

moonpie

Donux Ensete, there is a place in that scientifically measure your Aura.

"Aura" and "negative energies" is bunk and you should get a refund.

ensete

Donux ensete Ensete, there is a place in that scientifically measure your Aura. I have learned a lot from one dude who is developing EMF protecting clothing in cooperation with universities. Apparently, EMF protecting clothing has unexpected negative consequence, it blocks EMFs from outside world, but it also blocks human body EMF too. We are one with our environment, and we are not some sort of walking vacuums. But to get into this mindset, one would really need to spend more time in nature and to understand how normal state fells like. So generally there is more than it meets the eye or whatever that saying is.

I'm not talking about "Aura"s or EMF protective clothing (whatever that is). I am talking about the basic properties of electrical circuits. A rock does not provide a path to ground. If you don't believe me go get a multi meter, set it to DC volts, touch the positive probe to the positive end of a battery, and the negative probe to a rock. You won't get a reading because a rock is not a pathway to ground to complete a circuit. The rest of your mumbo jumbo is just new wave spiritual nonsense.

Donux

moonpie Well, don't be silly. Human body radiates heat and has weak EMF field around it. And we could go into various vibrations, frequencies that each object has. Interacting with these objects with result in some sort of vibrational equilibrium. Of we are reaching an edge of science here, but stating that this has no grounds is not true either. However coming back to eye strain issues, I think it is important to evaluate human experience as we evaluating technology and human interaction. This is not siloed technology issue, meaning solving let say pwm flicker on some devices, will not solve all problems for those who are experiencing eye strain, headache and related symptoms.

moonpie

Donux Well, don't be silly.

Silly is going to a place to have a charlatan "scientifically measure your Aura."

Donux

moonpie I have been introduced by this I remember in London by Oxford graduate. This is research paper, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/379986613_The_aura_of_the_human_body_and_methods_for_its_measurement_and_visualization

And there is someone who produce Aura photographs for people too.

moonpie

Donux Silly is believing that is a "research paper" and not a rambling blog post.

languidicity

Eye strain of the type being talked about in this forum is an inflammatory reaction to, or a result of muscle tension from, certain types of light. Take away the flickering, pulsing light and images that appear still to the naked eye but are subliminally moving and voila; no more eye strain or related symptoms. Or perhaps somehow nullify the inflammatory response or muscle tension for the same result.
Given the increasing prevalence globally of such symptom triggering light for those susceptible to it the second of those solutions seems, to me at least, to be the one that should be focused on, if you’ll pardon the pun.

This blather about rocks and auras is mildly amusing, but such pseudoscientific nonsense has no place here.