si_edgey Congrats on finding something that works for you! That's very encouraging that Discrete mode removes the eye strain. I'm interested in trying this model as well, especially considering it doesn't use PWM either (Surprisingly). I'm currently stuck on a 2015 MacBook, so this seems like a huge jump in power if it works for my eyes.
If anyone else happens to try the Omen, please let us know if it works 
@si_edgey I have another question for you 
Did you try to disable the intel GPU on your XPS? Is it possible?
Because I am having many problems with my working laptop so I need to figure out what to buy! I would try the HP spectre 360 15" OLED but it's not available here in Italy.
Thanks to the covid it's impossible to find the majority of the hardware 
Lauda89 Hi @Lauda89 - yes, disabling the Intel GPU in Device Manager was how I used the laptop for many years on Windows 10 v1511. That has downsides though - you're on the MS Basic Display Adapter, which means no power saving (hibernation / sleep mode etc) and obviously extremely limited GPU processing.
These days I just use the oldest drivers possible on Window 10 version 2004 (driver version 21.20.16.4475) and I can use it without symptoms. Switching to the later Intel drivers either makes me dizzy, or triggers a migraine.
I'd highly recommend this HP Omen 15 G-Sync laptop that I'm using right now, it's the most comfy laptop I've ever used, and I'm including my XPS 15 in that category. The only downsides are it's quite noisy and a bit ugly, what with it being a gaming laptop.
Can I ask why you think the OLED 360 will work for you? Are you generally able to used all OLED screens?
si_edgey So if you disable the intel GPU you weren't able to use the Nvidia card? Maybe the screen is "link" only with the intel GPU and not also with the Nvidia?!
Instead, with GSYNC laptop the Nvidia card has to be linked to the screen or it couldn't work, right?!
Well, I've never had any problems with OLED phones (Samsung galaxy, Samsung S2, Iphone X and Pixel 4A) and also with my TV LG B8 (used with PS4, Nintendo Switch and chrome cast). So I am pretty optimistic about that
Maybe because they are true 10 bit? or maybe because the pixel response time is super low, I don't know to be honest!
Lauda89 So if you disable the intel GPU you weren't able to use the Nvidia card? Maybe the screen is "link" only with the intel GPU and not also with the Nvidia?!
Instead, with GSYNC laptop the Nvidia card has to be linked to the screen or it couldn't work, right?!
From memory, this was the case - the Intel GPU was acting as the 'Master' GPU so when it was disabled, the MS Basic Display Adapter was used instead which wasn't able to access the Nvidia GPU.
But with this G-Sync laptop you can switch to Discrete mode where the Nvidia GPU is connected directly to the display, bypassing the Intel UHD altogether. So if the Intel graphics cause you problems (as it does form me) then this is a great solution. The display also feels very 'warm' to me - whites a milky and pleasant on the eyes.
Lauda89 Well, I've never had any problems with OLED phones (Samsung galaxy, Samsung S2, Iphone X and Pixel 4A) and also with my TV LG B8 (used with PS4, Nintendo Switch and chrome cast). So I am pretty optimistic about that
Maybe because they are true 10 bit? or maybe because the pixel response time is super low, I don't know to be honest!
Great! I've never actually tried an OLED panel in a device. Sounds like it's worth a shot, as long as there's a good returns policy. With HP you have 14 days to open and try a product before returning, and their returns are very slick - in the UK they collect the laptop from you to take it back.
Lauda89 maybe because the pixel response time is super low
I notice a difference in symptoms between LCDs and OLEDs. I think response time is a part of it, but also response time variance. If it takes a pixel 20ms to change, not all the pixels will change at the same rate due to imperfects in the crystals. Some will take 15, others 25 etc. I think the fuzziness this creates might make LCDs worse than OLED for some people. I want to do a study on this, but high speed cameras are expensive!
si_edgey I'd highly recommend this HP Omen 15 G-Sync laptop that I'm using right now, it's the most comfy laptop I've ever used, and I'm including my XPS 15 in that category. The only downsides are it's quite noisy and a bit ugly, what with it being a gaming laptop.
This sounds very promising! Are you using the latest Nvidia Driver? Is it just as comfortable using an external display?
This is sadly out of my price range for now however good to know that a new piece of tech is working for you.
Who do we flame to understand the science behind why this device works and others don't?
diop Hey @diop, yes latest Nvidia drivers - I didn't test with an external display actually. But I used the laptop for the 14 day returns period every single day with great success, it's definitely a usable machine for me. 
The noise and size of it weren't suitable for my laptop needs so I'm going to build a PC with a similar spec (it was an LG IPS G-Sync display in it) and see if I can get a usable system up and running. I'll report back of course. 
si_edgey Thanks for the update.
How were apps working on the laptop? e.g. Could 'bad' apps such as Chrome etc work without symptoms?
Presumably a PC build w/IPS G-Sync monitor is going to be quite expensive?
In some respects it makes sense why G-Sync doesn't cause symptoms. AFAIK dithering algorithms are designed to work at a fixed frequency. Or baked-in dithering could be a failsafe by GPU manufacturers to ensure a consistent output across all external displays. I assume G-Sync (when handshaking with a G-Sync monitor) 'trusts' the capabilities of the panel and doesn't resort to trickery such as temporal dithering. There is also Freesync which is another avenue to explore in the future.
diop How were apps working on the laptop? e.g. Could 'bad' apps such as Chrome etc work without symptoms?
Everything I used worked for me. I spent a lot of the 14 days gaming as I've got about a decade of games to catch up on!
diop Presumably a PC build w/IPS G-Sync monitor is going to be quite expensive?
It depends on what you go for but it certainly doesn't have to be that expensive - I'm going for a top spec machine (Ryzen 7 // RTX 3080)and it's coming in a little over the cost of the laptop (which was £1600) but for a huge leap in power. The G-Sync monitors aren't ridiculous from what I've found so far but need to do a bit of digging.
diop In some respects it makes sense why G-Sync doesn't cause symptoms. AFAIK dithering algorithms are designed to work at a fixed frequency. Or baked-in dithering could be a failsafe by GPU manufacturers to ensure a consistent output across all external displays. I assume G-Sync (when handshaking with a G-Sync monitor) 'trusts' the capabilities of the panel and doesn't resort to trickery such as temporal dithering. There is also Freesync which is another avenue to explore in the future.
It's difficult to know, but I have read that G-Sync involves a specific hardware module in the monitor which enables the refresh rate trickery, whereas Freesync doesn't require this. When checking out Freesync laptops it appears that they don't necessarily bypass the built in iGPU in the same way that Nvidia G-Sync does, so that could be an issue.
I'm tempted to try and return another G-Sync laptop, because that would begin to rule out just 'striking it lucky' with the first one I tried. Having read about Nvidia Advanced Optimus, I'm wondering if this could potentially be a game-changer, given my good experience with G-Sync.
Advanced Optimus has a hardware display switcher between the iGPU and dGPU:
This means that the frame buffer of the discrete GPU isn't being sent to the integrated GPU (ie Intel / Radeon) to be drawn on the screen. Therefore as long as you can use one GPU successfully, it'll be directly connected to the display. Knowing that I am able to use the Nvidia dGPU in the HP Omen (but not the Intel iGPU), the ability to dynamically switch to dGPU only seems like it could be a great thing.
It feels like it would also rule out the physical hardware of the iGPU output stage as an issue. The HP Omen has a MUX (display switcher) that requires a restart when you switch between GPUs, but when connected directly to the dGPU the display just feels completely different to me, in a very good way.
Here's a video on it to check out:
On another note, between testing out the Macbook M1 (horrible), a MS Surface (horrible) and the HP Omen (beautiful) I hadn't used my XPS 15 in a long time. Going back to it, somehow it had updated drivers and OS functionality (still on 2004 though) without me realising. I used it for half a day, blissfully unaware that the Intel drivers (amongst many others) had updated before I started to get an almighty migraine which is still lingering 2 days on.
Sometimes little 'blind tests' like this are handy to satisfy me that I'm not completely nuts.
si_edgey Sometimes little 'blind tests' like this are handy to satisfy me that I'm not completely nuts.
Oh yeah definitely. I just have to dig out any of my >2015 PC's and I get symptoms within minutes. Also Xbox One S and Smart TV apps are a no go.
I'm interested to know what would happen if a G-Sync GPU outputs to a fixed panel (say a standard Dell monitor at 60hz) VS a G-Sync panel. Hopefully we find out all G-Sync enabled tech works fine. It would then suggest to me that dithering has been a ploy all along to prevent banding on poor quality (<8bit) panels.
Hi,
I'm curious about your theory that G-Sync might be the solution and would like to test it on a Desktop (if possible). You were mainly talking about laptops, so I was wondering if in your opinion buying a monitor with G-sync (native) might make a difference on a desktop, compared to a monitor without G-Sync?
Current setup (that I can't use):
Some background on my other tech:
Some background on my health:
MPaz I was wondering if in your opinion buying a monitor with G-sync (native) might make a difference on a desktop, compared to a monitor without G-Sync?
Unfortunately it's literally impossible to say what will work for someone else, as there are so many variables in the tech alone, before we start thinking about brains! However the HP Omen mentioned above was the best experience I've had with a laptop in 10 years, so it's a promising start. Given you already have a very high end setup, it couldn't hurt to try a G-Sync monitor from a shop where you can easily return it? Out of interest, which brand is your RTX 3090?
I'm actually thinking about ordering a Razer Blade 15 to try - the 2021 RTX 3070 QHD Advanced model has a G-Sync display with the new Nvidia Advanced Optimus tech I mention above - could be an interesting test.
MPaz Eyes: mild mixed astigmatism (since chilhood) and exophoria which was diagnosed a few months ago
Maybe check out some threads and posts from @martin who has a lot of interesting things to say about eye health.
si_edgey
Thanks for your answer Okay, I might try a monitor with G-Sync and would let you know. I just thought that you could explain what theoretically that would change. As I understand, even though I connected my current monitor directly to Nvidia GPU, it still might use Intel iGPU for some tasks? And monitor with G-sync could avoid iGPU entirely?
si_edgey Out of interest, which brand is your RTX 3090?
It's ASUS TUF.
si_edgey I'm actually thinking about ordering a Razer Blade 15 to try - the 2021 RTX 3070 QHD Advanced model has a G-Sync display with the new Nvidia Advanced Optimus tech I mention above - could be an interesting test.
Great! Let us know what you'll find. I've seen someone having issues with RTX 30 GPUs, so would be good to know if it causes you symptoms or not.
Thanks for your suggestion, but yes, actually, he's the reason why I decided to look for a specialist who could test me for heterophoria in the first place. So, I was following health related threads for a while as well.
MPaz As I understand, even though I connected my current monitor directly to Nvidia GPU, it still might use Intel iGPU for some tasks? And monitor with G-sync could avoid iGPU entirely?
Ah no, this isn't correct - if you're on a desktop machine and are connected directly to the discrete GPU (ie your 3090) then the Intel graphics on the processor will by bypassed entirely. Only if you were to connect to the HDMI output of your motherboard would the Intel graphics come into play.
In fact, if you go to device manager you shouldn't even see the Intel graphics listed - if they are showing then you can normally disable onboard graphics in the BIOS for peace of mind. :]
The confusion comes with laptop GPUs. On a laptop with an integrated GPU + discrete GPU, if additional horsepower is needed (for games / video editing etc) then the discrete GPU kicks into gear. However, every frame that the dGPU renders is passed to the integrated GPU to actually display it on the screen. So the iGPU is the one that has to work for you.
So in your circumstance, using a G-Sync monitor will only allow you to use variable refresh rates when gaming. But what we're hoping is that the actual hardware in a G-Sync product may eliminate the need for dithering / flickering that causes a lot of us issues.
On a G-Sync laptop, you can enable a hardware switch (MUX) which connects the display directly to the dGPU, bypassing the iGPU altogether, hence if (like me) you have a particular problem with iGPU drivers / hardware, then you can bypass it altogether for a working setup.
Our issues seem to come from bad combinations of:
All of these can impact whatever 'flickering' it is that triggers your symptoms. So it's necessary to find the right combination that works for each individual. I'm curious as to whether I just struck it lucky with the HP Omen I bought and the planets aligned to make a usable machine, or whether G-Sync hardware communicates in such a way that it always eliminates the issues. Certainly, @highradio had the same results from his G-Sync machine which kicked off this new avenue to explore.
Let's keep fingers crossed for the latter. Not holding my breath though... 
si_edgey Thanks for the explanation!
I might try Dell AW2721D (G-Sync Ultimate) –
https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/77ac224f
However, I realized that it's 8 bits + FRC (10 bits). As I understand, FRC could also cause problems, so I wanted to ask if it's possible to disable FRC by just choosing 8 bits, or should I look for another G-Sync monitor, without FRC?
EDIT: In other forums I found that it can be disabled in Nvidia Control Panel. I will order this monitor in a couple of hours, so if you have any comments - let me know ASAP
MPaz Good luck with it - there's no way to recommend anything at the moment as we're right at the beginning of this G-Sync adventure. Curious to hear how you get on with that. The only I'd say is that personally I'm yet to comfortably use a screen beyond 1080p FHD, so the QHD would put me off. That's purely anecdotal though, and I haven't tried many higher res screens yet.
Unfortunately, I found that many people are having issues with AW2721D monitor and displays with NanoIPS in general, so for now I'll probably look into other IPS / VA alternatives with G-Sync.
They say that the reason is:
"Colors are oversaturated because it's using a DCI-P3 color space instead of sRGB and the KSF red phosphor in the backlight is way too vibrant, the red color is the main cause of eye strain."
However, many people who decided to stick with NanoIPS monitors say that they got used to them in 1-2 weeks. So, I need to figure if I would be able to return it before ordering and then I might try it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/k0zuy2/aw2721d_eye_strain/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/jn7u7v/s2721dgf_causing_intense_eye_strain_and_weirdness/
EDIT: decided to avoid NanoIPS for now and ordered Asus ROG Swift PG259QN to try. I'll get it only in about 2 weeks, so will let you know as soon as I can.
@highradio
si_edgey Hey, so I just wanted to let you know that it's been around a week since I got the Asus PG259QNR monitor to test the Nvidia GPU + G-sync display theory. However, it still causes me the symptoms and I haven't found a way to make it better (still trying various things).
DisplayPort + RGB Full – seem to be the best, but it still causes eyestrain. I guess the monitor itself might cause it?
Using HDMI cable or ycbcr422 – seem to make it even worse - eye strain, immediately harder to focus, etc.
Maybe someone could suggest, what are the key things to try on this setup? (RTX 3090; Asus
PG259QNR; Win 10 20H2)
