Temporal Dithering Sensitivity - My Solution

karthi3219

It might be similar to what I experienced recently, trying to upgrade i3-3220 with HD 2500 to i7-3770 with HD 4000: https://ledstrain.org/d/1213-intel-hd-2500-is-fine-but-hd-4000-is-straining

I could not stand HD 4000, so I switched back to my old CPU (keeping other upgrades: RAM and SSD).

There is no guarantee my setup will work for you, and I don't know why things work or don't work, but it is:

Motherboard: Asus P8H77-I with Intel H77 Express chipset

CPU: Intel i3-3220

Connection: VGA

Monitor: Philips 190VW (CCFL backlighting) at about 90% brightness, so that PWM does not bother me. The other monitor Samsung 971P is connected by DVI, but I use it as a second display only. It tires my eyes when used as the main display.

If you still have your old system, it would be ideal to simply continue using it, probably upgrading some other components if it feels slow. For me, even on an i3-3220 with 16 GB RAM and a 1 TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD everything is very fast.

si_edgey

As I know new Dell XPS 17 9700 and 9710 have the same BIOS option allowing you to switch whether the Intel or NVIDIA GPU controls the display outputs (including the built-in display), but this is not offered on the Dell XPS 15th. (It also has 0 PWM ).

Looks like this BIOS option is available only with an NVIDIA RTX GPU, not the GTX.

If someone has it on hands, we should definitely give it a try as well.

Battery life and fan noise could be an issue as well here, that's why better to try it before purchasing.

krr55

krr55

Wont Nvidia cards create these issues strains and headaches? In that case can I build desktop with AMD processor without GPU and add Nvidia graphics cards for GPU and display? Is this a good idea?

Hi all -- thanks to everyone for this thread. I'm loving the collective problem solving.

As I have been reading these forums I'm a bit overwhelmed by the possible options. There is not a works-for-all tech fix because people have different experiences with different hardware. The back and forth dialog is amazing, but leaves my head spinning with the options. I have been trying to piece it together but I'm a history major getting my ass kicked by all of the tech options. I use macs because they are plug and play.

I'm trying to create a summary and step by step process to go through to find a solution. I'm hoping this is helpful to other newbies entering this forum as well.

I'm imagining something like: 1.) Here are the options that seem to work for the most people (lap tops, monitors) 2.) Here are the modifications to make to your OS for those options.

Here is my summary so far. I'm wondering if any of the pros on this forum can offer advice, feedback and current best thinking.

Summary

There are many possible causes:

• drivers

• the software you're running

• GPUs

• cables

• monitors

"For some a PWM free display might solve the issue, for some a higher refresh rate monitor will work, some will have a faulty graphics card that needs to be replaced"

PMW

• notebookcheck.net has reviews of laptops to see if the display uses PWM. (Heads up that the site's detail is overwhelming for the non-tech savvy (aka: me) )

Dithering

Dithering.exe is an app that can remove dithering in PCs

• One post said "Dithering 1.11 - it is much better than 1.12+3"
• Another asked if dithering.exe worked with AMD machines

Drivers
The Intel GPU seems to be the culprit for many.

• One solution is using older versions of Window. "These days I just use the oldest drivers possible on Window 10 version 2004 (driver version 21.20.16.4475) and I can use it without symptoms. Switching to the later Intel drivers either makes me dizzy, or triggers a migraine."

• Lap tops with G-sync are working for several people. The theory is that it forces the computer to bypass the integrated Intel GPU and connects to the discrete Nvidia GPU.
• The Omen 15-ek0005na works for some when it is switched into Discrete graphics mode. But that kills power saving and the machine is big, heavy and loud.
• Acer Predator laptop with Nvidia 1070, G-Sync support, and a PWM free matt screen. It also has Acer's proprietary Bluelight Shield.
• Lenovo Legion 5 Pro works for some, not for others.

It seems important to dig into the version of Windows and multiple settings in the display and others. But that's when things get past my depth, so of anyone wants to add info, please help.

Macs

Macs cause problems for most people in this forum.

• The new Macbook Air with the M1 chip worked for a few but didn't work for others.
• One post had good results with a Mac Mini with Asus 27" MX27UC monitor
• On other forums, several people reposted this (though it didn't work for me): System Preferences > Display > Color and then change the profile to sRGB or something other than P3. It will look quite over saturated but the working theory is that dithering is being used to approximate the P3 gamut, selecting sRGB may disable this. 

Monitors

External monitors have the same problem if the issue is the driver/dithering.

• There is a partial discussion on G-Sync ready monitors and whether they are able to use the G-Sync work around.

• Some discussion about how to use the G-sync work around with desktops

  
  

  Monitors with NanoIPS cause a lot of people eye strain.

• KSF red phosphor in the backlight is too vibrant, the red color is the main cause of eye strain

• Switching to sRGB helped some

• Others found the strain went away after about 2 weeks

That's what I've pulled together from this site. What have I missed?

I got HP Omen 15 2021 version with 3070 (G-Sync, the cheaper 3060 variety does not support G-sync). It came with AUO82ED panel, not LG (there is panel lottery unfortunately, even 2020 version has this option). The panel itself is unpleasant, an issue that I believe is separate from OS/GPU temporal dithering issue based on my subjective experience. I have some dithering laptops which does not feel like this screen.

Strain is reduced in Windows 10 1507, but so far unable to get Nvidia adapter working (OS requirements, ini mod may help, but so far latest success stories with notebook were only with 20xx and Win 7, but it’s also possible to add in a newer adapter in an older driver, apparently. I have to do more experimentation).

The take away for me is that this laptop did not disable modern Windows 10 strain for me.

It’s hard for me to evaluate the Nvidia adapter with this modern Windows 10 complication, and frankly I dislike the panel.

Edit: Actually I will compare discrete vs hybrid modes anyway and compare intensity of strain

Edit2: On Reddit someone reported strain with this panel on the Omen 15 2020. Really too bad about the panel lottery.

Reddit post

Answering my own question. I found the model number as AUO82ED which is from a company called AU Optronics, and not LG (LGD05C0) that some people have with HP Omen 15-dc1058. Should I be concerned? (Bought refurbished) Been getting eye strain everyday. Can someone with HP Omen 15 confirm their display type?

degen

After final testing, the HP Omen 15 is not good for me. There is strong pain inside of known good OS, and occurring in both Hybrid and Discrete modes. Whatever is going on here must be fairly strong for me to experience such a terrible migraine after testing. The dud panel hypothesis just doesn't sit well with me; there is something else here. The MUX switch and G-SYNC are not my cure. I am heading to a full e-ink solution now, as I see any other hardware solution is a dead end for me, and the situation is only getting worse.