Temporal Dithering Sensitivity - My Solution

si_edgey Thanks for your response.
Since its incredibly hard to find a TN panel gaming laptop anyway, my best bet would be a g-sync laptop with discrete option, which if i'm correct the legion 5 pro does offer.

I won't have the money for it until next month but I will let everyone know how the experience is for me.
Hopefully giving everyone some feedback how to solve the issues for them as well or perhaps not fixed at all.

I should notify however that after my 8th visit to an optician they finally noticed that my right eye is a bit slower to respond than my left eye and slightly moves to the left, meaning I have "double vision" this is something I don't notice myself because my eyes work really hard to fix this, and is even very hard to detect for opticians (and other doctors) but could according to the optician, have a high chance of being the reason my eyes get fatiqued or even painful, I have to go to an actual eye doctor to get this fully checked out, after its all 100% correctly measured and figured out, all I would need is a prism in my glasses and the vision should be restored to normal and my eyes wouldn't have to work as hard.

I am not sure how rare this issue is to be honest since I just heard about it but perhaps could be something to look out after if you already tried everything to fix eye fatique/strain but nothing helps.

Bassiehetkoekje

Maxx

I've been testing it for awhile, at this point i'm not a 100% certain its the screens that cause my eye - fatique / strain.
Sometimes it looks like it does, and sometimes I can look at it just fine.

With that said, I do believe I have more rest on my eyes than my other laptop (y720 from lenovo).
I have made some changes however to what feels like makes it better, I keep playing with settings untill I feel like i've found the perfect setup.

Currently I have:

• Windows Nightlight on at 55% strenght.
• Graphics on discrete (this is default, but good to check in the bios and lenovo vantage)
• X-rite collor assistant is on "Rec.709" profile (I believe this helped the most), "default" seems too bright.
• Brightness of screen about 80%

If anyone has other settings they use i'd love to hear ofcourse.

So as for laptops this has been the most comfortable so far, but like Maxx said, I'm not sure if i'm actually sensitive to screens like some of you are or if there are other factors at play here.

I've been testing the HP OMEN 15-ek0027nb for one week now.
As far as I can tell, it has the exact same specs as the HP Omen 15-ek0005na that @si_edgey has tested.
I almost can't believe it, but I'm experiencing no eyestrain after 3 hours of daily use. (on all other devices, I start noticing symptoms within 10 minutes). It's not quite like "looking at paper", but it's a game changer for me.

All I did was activate the 'discrete graphics' and install W10 v2004. But even more surprising: I updated to the latest Windows version yesterday and I'm still not experiencing any issues. Not sure if this will continue though; haven't been testing that long.

I'm a bit unsure about what to do now... I was planning to send this laptop back after testing. But it's the only
device that has worked for me in the last 2 years (excluding e-ink devices). I'm not sure whether I'll be able to find another laptop that also works for me, seeing that the Lenovo Legion 5 Pro isn't a unanimous success for people. I know, I should try for myself... But I'm just so excited to have something that works! I don't want to send it back

PS: I don't want to give people false hope, but please give this laptop a try if you can. It seems like not many people have done so yet. It would be very useful to know if there's something special about this particular device...

PS2: si_edgey I would be very interested to know how things are going with the Omen-inspired system. If it works, I'd like to replicate it! (this thing is a bit noisy for my taste)

Bassiehetkoekje Dude, if this is the only device that has worked in the past 2 years, then this is the fish you have caught to eat.

Bassiehetkoekje As far as I can tell, it has the exact same specs as the HP Omen 15-ek0005na that @si_edgey has tested.
I almost can't believe it, but I'm experiencing no eyestrain after 3 hours of daily use. (on all other devices, I start noticing symptoms within 10 minutes). It's not quite like "looking at paper", but it's a game changer for me.

Great news! If you're up to it maybe try prolonged use (9-5 workday) or even watching a movie/gaming on it, etc. Test it in every possible environment if you can.

I would love to buy this laptop for testing, unfortunately I don't have the funds at the moment, but it looks like a very capable spec and somewhat future-proofed for now. @si_edgey , are you still happy with the laptop?

I'd also be interested to know if you've tried using an external monitor(s) and if the comfort continues without using the laptop panel?

Alyosha2001 It's a LG Philips LGD05C0. This is the classic a-Si type of panel not LTPS or IGZO.

Sunspark It's a LG Philips LGD05C0. This is the classic a-Si type of panel not LTPS or IGZO.

Very interesting! I currently use an a-Si screen, which is excelent for me, the AU B156HAN01.1, and I strongly recommend it to anyone to try! But as the new models use slimmer panels, I need to look for a new one, as the old one does not fit. I have tried severals without success for my new ZBook 15 G6 laptop. What do you think about the new LTPS and IGZO, how are the ergonomics?
I didn't know about theese technologies untill now, and I started researching. Maybe a thread about panel technologies or panel models should be usefull?

Wonder if there are any desktops with G-Sync anyone has tried? Such that it will not use Intel graphics? I am pretty confused on the laptop vs. desktop and G-Sync here.

It seems like the HP Omen is an outlier given the Lenovo Legion 5 Pro is not good for strain.

karthi3219

It might be similar to what I experienced recently, trying to upgrade i3-3220 with HD 2500 to i7-3770 with HD 4000: https://ledstrain.org/d/1213-intel-hd-2500-is-fine-but-hd-4000-is-straining

I could not stand HD 4000, so I switched back to my old CPU (keeping other upgrades: RAM and SSD).

There is no guarantee my setup will work for you, and I don't know why things work or don't work, but it is:

Motherboard: Asus P8H77-I with Intel H77 Express chipset

CPU: Intel i3-3220

Connection: VGA

Monitor: Philips 190VW (CCFL backlighting) at about 90% brightness, so that PWM does not bother me. The other monitor Samsung 971P is connected by DVI, but I use it as a second display only. It tires my eyes when used as the main display.

If you still have your old system, it would be ideal to simply continue using it, probably upgrading some other components if it feels slow. For me, even on an i3-3220 with 16 GB RAM and a 1 TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD everything is very fast.

si_edgey

As I know new Dell XPS 17 9700 and 9710 have the same BIOS option allowing you to switch whether the Intel or NVIDIA GPU controls the display outputs (including the built-in display), but this is not offered on the Dell XPS 15th. (It also has 0 PWM ).

Looks like this BIOS option is available only with an NVIDIA RTX GPU, not the GTX.

If someone has it on hands, we should definitely give it a try as well.

Battery life and fan noise could be an issue as well here, that's why better to try it before purchasing.

krr55

krr55

Wont Nvidia cards create these issues strains and headaches? In that case can I build desktop with AMD processor without GPU and add Nvidia graphics cards for GPU and display? Is this a good idea?

si_edgey

I am wondering if you can post the exact model you use -- unfortunately the link to HP is broken.

Hi all -- thanks to everyone for this thread. I'm loving the collective problem solving.

As I have been reading these forums I'm a bit overwhelmed by the possible options. There is not a works-for-all tech fix because people have different experiences with different hardware. The back and forth dialog is amazing, but leaves my head spinning with the options. I have been trying to piece it together but I'm a history major getting my ass kicked by all of the tech options. I use macs because they are plug and play.

I'm trying to create a summary and step by step process to go through to find a solution. I'm hoping this is helpful to other newbies entering this forum as well.

I'm imagining something like: 1.) Here are the options that seem to work for the most people (lap tops, monitors) 2.) Here are the modifications to make to your OS for those options.

Here is my summary so far. I'm wondering if any of the pros on this forum can offer advice, feedback and current best thinking.

Summary

There are many possible causes:

• drivers

• the software you're running

• GPUs

• cables

• monitors

"For some a PWM free display might solve the issue, for some a higher refresh rate monitor will work, some will have a faulty graphics card that needs to be replaced"

PMW

• notebookcheck.net has reviews of laptops to see if the display uses PWM. (Heads up that the site's detail is overwhelming for the non-tech savvy (aka: me) )

Dithering

Dithering.exe is an app that can remove dithering in PCs

• One post said "Dithering 1.11 - it is much better than 1.12+3"
• Another asked if dithering.exe worked with AMD machines

Drivers
The Intel GPU seems to be the culprit for many.

• One solution is using older versions of Window. "These days I just use the oldest drivers possible on Window 10 version 2004 (driver version 21.20.16.4475) and I can use it without symptoms. Switching to the later Intel drivers either makes me dizzy, or triggers a migraine."

• Lap tops with G-sync are working for several people. The theory is that it forces the computer to bypass the integrated Intel GPU and connects to the discrete Nvidia GPU.
• The Omen 15-ek0005na works for some when it is switched into Discrete graphics mode. But that kills power saving and the machine is big, heavy and loud.
• Acer Predator laptop with Nvidia 1070, G-Sync support, and a PWM free matt screen. It also has Acer's proprietary Bluelight Shield.
• Lenovo Legion 5 Pro works for some, not for others.

It seems important to dig into the version of Windows and multiple settings in the display and others. But that's when things get past my depth, so of anyone wants to add info, please help.

Macs

Macs cause problems for most people in this forum.

• The new Macbook Air with the M1 chip worked for a few but didn't work for others.
• One post had good results with a Mac Mini with Asus 27" MX27UC monitor
• On other forums, several people reposted this (though it didn't work for me): System Preferences > Display > Color and then change the profile to sRGB or something other than P3. It will look quite over saturated but the working theory is that dithering is being used to approximate the P3 gamut, selecting sRGB may disable this. 

Monitors

External monitors have the same problem if the issue is the driver/dithering.

• There is a partial discussion on G-Sync ready monitors and whether they are able to use the G-Sync work around.

• Some discussion about how to use the G-sync work around with desktops

  
  

  Monitors with NanoIPS cause a lot of people eye strain.

• KSF red phosphor in the backlight is too vibrant, the red color is the main cause of eye strain

• Switching to sRGB helped some

• Others found the strain went away after about 2 weeks

That's what I've pulled together from this site. What have I missed?