Just curious, what color profile are you using for windows? Also, is HDR turned on in windows? Your symptoms seem to mirror mine when I come across a troublesome display. Can't focus on anything in particular on the screen, it doesn't seem sharp, feeling woozy, and brain overload.
RTX A4000 Causes Eyestrain With True 10-bit Monitor
Jack The Quadro K4200 produces a much better image than this new A4000 which is just shocking. Even the BIOS screen has this blurry effect on the boot logo and menu
Sounds very similar to alleged issues with recent Nvidia cards, so you aren't alone.
I realize this is more a hypothetical than anything but if I had this particular bad card in my possession I could probably deduct what the potential cause is relatively quickly.
Jack I wish there was a modern GPU that didnt resort to this trickery for extra performance, i plan on buying a RTX 4000 from Amazon which is the Turing based version of the A4000, its slightly weaker but should be plenty powerful enough, if i get eyestrain i will just return it.
Can't comment on modern Nvidia GPUs, but I've recently had good fortune with a certain Radeon Pro reference card. Frustratingly, this is not a blanket endorsement of all AMD cards because similar issues can exist there as well.
https://ledstrain.org/d/1652-any-success-stories-upgrading-to-rtx-3000-series/2
Jack This is an excellent comment! Memory compression could be exactly what's causing this as a side effect. They constantly improve the technique, many people had troubles even with older generation cards, perhaps with increasing its "efficiency" it's getting worse and with the latest generation it's above the limit of a higher number of people.
Would you consider writing this on the NVidia forum? We all should start posting it and try to expose this…
From some searching it appears the a4000 has the G104 'chip' the same as the 3060ti.
I cant really offer any help but the blurry effect I have raised with Nvidia from my 3060ti compared to my 1660s, it is extremly noticable to me especially on a TN screen, slightly less on an IPS but either way that is only one of the problems with it.
Changing settings in nvidia control panel for sharpness helps a bit but its not the same clear image that the 1660s offers and is most noticable in 3d applications.
I would like to think the blurryness is part of why it gives me migraines but who knows, Nvidia say there is no differnence in output between the two cards.
HAL9000 If I had a card "A" that was good and a card "B" that was bad in front of me I might be able to get some empirical data as for whats possibly going on.
Perhaps as well we're asking Nvidia the wrong questions so that's potentially why they claim no difference. In addition I suspect I know some ways that might potentially skip the normal customer service queue of support (which I mentioned before is "siloed" from the engineering teams).
- Edited
I posted in the DIY osciloscope PWM thread about dithering and how I've been able to make a cheap setup capable of recording it with an iphone SE on a tripod with a carson microflip microscope attached https://imgur.com/Pb27cPv. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh0vRJNnHy8 (this was a p24h-10 monitor). All my monitor recordings were done on a g4560 using the hd610 igp in windows 10 with ditherig running.
An interesting thing I've found is that it seems you can't rely on panel bit depth specifications to know whether or not the display dithers. I recorded very clear dithering on my AOC u27v3 monitor that uses the PANDA LM270PF1L panel https://imgur.com/DW1FYjx. This panel should be true native 8-bit as it's also used in the AOC U2790VQ and Philips 276E8VJSB monitors, both of which are 10-bit (8-bit+FRC).
https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/f8d41b4a
https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/f02b1537
I guess this makes sense since the monitor's control board ultimately determines whether or not dithering is used. So slapping a budget control board that reaches 8-bit color by using 6-bit+FRC onto a native 8-bit panel will just make the 8-bit panel dither. Now the real question is do the control boards that reach 10-bit through 8-bit+FRC also use 6-bit+FRC to cover the initial 8-bit color range?
I posted in the DIY osciloscope PWM thread
Move to a new thread for organizational reasons. All posts preserved and a redirect link is in the other thread.
machala Yeah i think this plays a part in the eye strain especially since theres a difference in general image quality from switching from a K4200 to a A4000. I can try writing there but i doubt they will take it seriously unless enough people join in and complain.
HAL9000 The exact revision is "GA104-875-A1" and it seems closest to the RTX 3070 TI(GA104-400-A1) and the RTX 3070 TI 16GB which never was actually released, I wonder if all GA104 based GPU's will cause the same symptoms or if moving up to a GA102(RTX 3080, 3090, A5000) based GPU would be any better. It was reported here that a RTX 3090 gave @screengazer eyestrain so it seems like maybe the GA102 series will cause the same symptoms. https://ledstrain.org/d/1048-new-graphics-card-rtx-3090-gives-eyestrain
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-ga104.g964
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia-ga102.g930
It sounds like you have similar experience with your 3060 Ti as im having with my A4000, i tried raising the sharpness in the control panel and it helped a very small about amount but still not usable for me.
I have a RTX 4000 based on the TU104 GPU arriving soon which comes with Samsung VRAM, i really hope it will be free of eyestrain. If that fails ill try a RTX 5000 after that and see what happens. The 5700 XT's ive tried have been the worst so far though.
6 days later
So i received my Quadro RTX 4000, and out of the box, this card is certainly usable, the image quality is "different" its not bad/worse, just different, but it feels its still slightly less flat, it doesnt cause me eyestrain/dizzyness and im glad to be able to finally use a somewhat recent GPU.
I saw several posts about a program called NvColorControl
https://ledstrain.org/d/1048-new-graphics-card-rtx-3090-gives-eyestrain/5
https://ledstrain.org/d/1119-g-sync-laptop-zero-eye-strain-from-gaming-tons-from-regular-use-help/20
I ran it with the settings "NvColorControl.exe 10 RGB 2" and the image looks the same as my Quadro K4200 now. From what i understand about reading the instructions from Vinz80 is that setting "2" is disabling the state for Nvidia to enable the dithering, if thats true then that would mean Nvidia is just enabling dithering for everything even if the monitor has a true 10bit panel.
I still need to test it under Windows 10 to see if NvColorControl helps, but on my Windows 7 installation it made a huge difference.
6 days later
@degen For Windows 7 the last officially released Quadro driver is 441.66 but i used the oldest stable branch version i could find which is R410 U6 (412.29) February 22, 2019. They also have an older one from the "New Feature Branch" R415 U2 (416.78) November 13 2018. My Windows 7 installation is from an ISO without SP1 and i install the SP1 and minimal related updates manually and replace the outdated security certificates with one from a Windows 10 install by exporting each one manually since on an old Windows 7 ISO they will be expired. I never use Windows update to make sure nothing unwanted gets by.
@machala Usually they are listed in GPUZ, and im pretty sure all of the Quadro RTX and RTX A series use only Samsung VRAM and not Micron, Elpida or Hynix. If it isnt listed in GPUZ then you would have to take apart the heatsink/fan assembly to inspect the VRAM modules, which gives an opportunity to replace the thermal paste since the stock thermal paste from the factory is usually bad.
Side note, my IGP only says DDR3 because it's using system memory. CPU-Z can be used to show you who the manufacturer is on the SPD tab--in my case, Kingston.
- Edited
Jack It's Windows 10 21H2, NVidia drivers 457 DCH, the ones WIN 10 installed by default. I tried on a Gigabyte 1050 Ti D5, will be trying this on my second card MSI 1660 Super Ventus today. Unfortunately tomorrow is the last day when I can return the cards and the way I see it is that I'll have to do it.