• OSWindows

  • Trouble with Windows 10, any solutions?

ensete I didnt notice this article before - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering

it shows that when subpixel rendering is involved, the letters float and dont stay put. Putting too much workload on people with preexisting eye cond. like heterophoria.
Im gonna meet with one physicist soon and do tests in a lab with microscope and high speed camera on good and bad devices. He works in led development and is really interested in the topic. Its already been done here, but now I hope to replicate it more precisely.

I am also curious why my iphone 7 is ok now with reduced white point, but without it gives really bad pain. Hopefully the tests will show.

It also seems subpixel rendering is driven by graphic cards and not os -

      6 months later

      I found this link from some months ago where Windows 10 had a bug that caused all monitors and graphics card to have strong banding on gradients: https://www.eizoglobal.com/support/compatibility/software/problem_windows10_may_2019_update/index.html

      I think this is further proof that they are doing something unnecessary with the graphics output on the OS level, independent of monitors and graphics cards.

      • Gurm replied to this.
      • AGI likes this.

        KM Windows 10 builds after early 2016 have "composition layers" which allow manipulation of the display AFTER all the rendering is done. Basically a kind of bullshit software frame buffer. Awful stuff.

        • diop replied to this.
        • KM likes this.

            Gurm IIRC I read that some W10 apps are already being developed solely for 10bit use. 'Composition layers' are then used to dither down for use on 8bit displays.

            Is there any MS documentation on composition layers?

            • Gurm replied to this.

                diop you can find some in the development SDK documentation, but there's precious little on what it actually does, versus how to use them.

                  I've just tryed to upgrade my notebook and my desktop pc from the 1809 to the 1909 and i can't use it! Someone else have found some problems with the last upgrade?

                    Lauda89 some people find 1909 better some find it worse. Definitely different from 1809.

                        Gurm and what about the 1903? because i need it for downloading games with the xbox pass! I can't with the 1809 🙁

                        • Gurm replied to this.

                            Lauda89 it's a real problem. 1903 and 1909 seem pretty indistinguishable to me. But that's me.

                                Outside of a workplace y'know y'all don't have to use Win 10..

                                • diop replied to this.

                                  Sunspark Outside of a workplace y'know y'all don't have to use Win 10..

                                  That's true however not for much longer. Windows 7 updates stop next month and Windows 8.1 in January 2023.

                                  I also think given that W10 has been out for nearly 5 years, it's the principle that by now we should be able to use this OS without issues. Maybe something behind the scenes changed in W10, this could explain why when testing my NUC a few months back I had problems.

                                    Gurm I am really sad to be honest. I've always thought that was an hardware problem in my case (light emitted / pannel types) but now it's also a software problem. it's getting too complicated 🙁

                                    • diop replied to this.

                                        Lauda89 There definately are things in hardware to watch out for but thankfully these issues are now in the public eye, that's why we can buy PWM-free/low blue light displays.

                                        In my own situation there have been so many 'upgrades' that have bricked my usuable devices into unusable, or certainly more uncomfortable than before.

                                        I would say that it's not getting too complicated, if anything taking hardware out of the equation simplifies things. It also means that a software fix would solve our problems overnight. Therein lies the frustration, it can probably all be fixed with a few lines of code, but it is a walled garden.

                                            diop I am not optimistic as you are 🙂 I mean, I found to be affected by this problem 2/3 years ago when i tried to change my old CCFL PC monitor and i had to buy 5 monitor before I found one that didn't hurt my eyes: Alienware AW2518H 240 hz TN pannel 1080P.
                                            But now also with that monitor i have problems with the latest windows upgrade. Maybe also the other monitor wasn't a problem itself but just a bad combination HW / SW ?!

                                            I am also not really happy that there is a software factor to our problem because you can not always fix the software. With MACOS we can't do anything, with cars display too. It is often not easy to go back with the updates of TVs, smartphone etc ...

                                                Lauda89 Maybe we will see some progress with Linux (there is still a bug filed on Ubuntu launchpad) but who knows how long that will take to get attention.

                                                If it was just PC's I had problems with, then maybe I could have worked around it by using Smartphones and buying a games console. In my case the symptoms occur on pretty much all avenues of new tech. I can't watch videos on a Samsung Smart TV due to the effects (I suspect dithering), I can't use a Nintendo Switch for more than 10 minutes on the System Menu (I suspect dithering) and even buying a brand new Windows PC earlier this year caused immediate issues on my good monitor. I used to be able to watch Netflix/browse on my iPhone 4/5/6 for long hours like on my PC. In the last few years I can't even do that. Please be reassured that others here are facing the same issues. We don't want to stop using technology but we can't upgrade - it's a catch 22. This isn't even taking into account the fact that for many in the western world using a computer is a means to earn a living. So this issue affects our job prospects, our accessibility to others around us (social media) and our health (headaches/dizziness).

                                                If I don't see any progress in the next year I am going to consider a class action lawsuit or at least find out where I stand legally. I'm still staying optimistic as my gut tells me this is a quick fix and not something mysterious. The effects had to be created therefore they can be removed.

                                                    diop I am sorry for you 🙁 at least i can use the iphone X, OLED TV and PS4 without any problems. Right now my main problem is the notebook that i use everydays for work! I want to try an OLED notebook next year!

                                                    P.S. The thing that scares me most are the car displays. I can't buy and return the cars like i can usaly do with the tech stuff !

                                                        Lauda89 I agree, in some cars displays are terrible even for people without the level of sensitivity people in this forum show. A colleague of mine leased Skoda Karoq and at night the car displays are really bright even when reducing brightness. At the car service the technicians applied some kind of tint to all main displays because my colleague complaint about it.

                                                        Personally i can tolerate car displays that can be reduced to almost no light. I am thinking to lease a Nissan Qashqai which seemed OK for me when i did a test drive. The lights can be reduced to a very low level via specific buttons.

                                                          Will be interesting to see where car displays end up in the era of laws against distracted driving (electronic devices). Apparently Mazda removed the tablet from their new models. Not sure if they just inset it lower or if it's actually gone. I hated that thing. My stepfather has a Mazda and while the tablet doesn't flicker, he is one of those old people who drives at night with it at full daylight brightness and gets upset if you dim it or turn it off. The tablet was also completely useless. Wasn't android or iOS. No apps. No gps. Couldn't do a thing except look at the tailgate camera or change the radio station.

                                                          Lauda89 Someone else have found some problems with the last upgrade?

                                                          I've observed a definite reduction in comfort levels with something post 1909. But I've not been able to pin down just what it was.

                                                          I'm still in the midst of trying older versions of Windows 10. And such a reinstall of everything will take weeks to complete if/when I finally pull the trigger on a downgrade of versions.

                                                          • Gurm replied to this.
                                                              16 days later

                                                              Lauda89 Would you mind telling the monitors you tried before that? Any 144 Hz panels you tried but didn't work?

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