Temporal Dithering Sensitivity - My Solution

si_edgey

I am wondering if you can post the exact model you use -- unfortunately the link to HP is broken.

Hi all -- thanks to everyone for this thread. I'm loving the collective problem solving.

As I have been reading these forums I'm a bit overwhelmed by the possible options. There is not a works-for-all tech fix because people have different experiences with different hardware. The back and forth dialog is amazing, but leaves my head spinning with the options. I have been trying to piece it together but I'm a history major getting my ass kicked by all of the tech options. I use macs because they are plug and play.

I'm trying to create a summary and step by step process to go through to find a solution. I'm hoping this is helpful to other newbies entering this forum as well.

I'm imagining something like: 1.) Here are the options that seem to work for the most people (lap tops, monitors) 2.) Here are the modifications to make to your OS for those options.

Here is my summary so far. I'm wondering if any of the pros on this forum can offer advice, feedback and current best thinking.

Summary

There are many possible causes:

• drivers

• the software you're running

• GPUs

• cables

• monitors

"For some a PWM free display might solve the issue, for some a higher refresh rate monitor will work, some will have a faulty graphics card that needs to be replaced"

PMW

• notebookcheck.net has reviews of laptops to see if the display uses PWM. (Heads up that the site's detail is overwhelming for the non-tech savvy (aka: me) )

Dithering

Dithering.exe is an app that can remove dithering in PCs

• One post said "Dithering 1.11 - it is much better than 1.12+3"
• Another asked if dithering.exe worked with AMD machines

Drivers
The Intel GPU seems to be the culprit for many.

• One solution is using older versions of Window. "These days I just use the oldest drivers possible on Window 10 version 2004 (driver version 21.20.16.4475) and I can use it without symptoms. Switching to the later Intel drivers either makes me dizzy, or triggers a migraine."

• Lap tops with G-sync are working for several people. The theory is that it forces the computer to bypass the integrated Intel GPU and connects to the discrete Nvidia GPU.
• The Omen 15-ek0005na works for some when it is switched into Discrete graphics mode. But that kills power saving and the machine is big, heavy and loud.
• Acer Predator laptop with Nvidia 1070, G-Sync support, and a PWM free matt screen. It also has Acer's proprietary Bluelight Shield.
• Lenovo Legion 5 Pro works for some, not for others.

It seems important to dig into the version of Windows and multiple settings in the display and others. But that's when things get past my depth, so of anyone wants to add info, please help.

Macs

Macs cause problems for most people in this forum.

• The new Macbook Air with the M1 chip worked for a few but didn't work for others.
• One post had good results with a Mac Mini with Asus 27" MX27UC monitor
• On other forums, several people reposted this (though it didn't work for me): System Preferences > Display > Color and then change the profile to sRGB or something other than P3. It will look quite over saturated but the working theory is that dithering is being used to approximate the P3 gamut, selecting sRGB may disable this. 

Monitors

External monitors have the same problem if the issue is the driver/dithering.

• There is a partial discussion on G-Sync ready monitors and whether they are able to use the G-Sync work around.

• Some discussion about how to use the G-sync work around with desktops

  
  

  Monitors with NanoIPS cause a lot of people eye strain.

• KSF red phosphor in the backlight is too vibrant, the red color is the main cause of eye strain

• Switching to sRGB helped some

• Others found the strain went away after about 2 weeks

That's what I've pulled together from this site. What have I missed?

I got HP Omen 15 2021 version with 3070 (G-Sync, the cheaper 3060 variety does not support G-sync). It came with AUO82ED panel, not LG (there is panel lottery unfortunately, even 2020 version has this option). The panel itself is unpleasant, an issue that I believe is separate from OS/GPU temporal dithering issue based on my subjective experience. I have some dithering laptops which does not feel like this screen.

Strain is reduced in Windows 10 1507, but so far unable to get Nvidia adapter working (OS requirements, ini mod may help, but so far latest success stories with notebook were only with 20xx and Win 7, but it’s also possible to add in a newer adapter in an older driver, apparently. I have to do more experimentation).

The take away for me is that this laptop did not disable modern Windows 10 strain for me.

It’s hard for me to evaluate the Nvidia adapter with this modern Windows 10 complication, and frankly I dislike the panel.

Edit: Actually I will compare discrete vs hybrid modes anyway and compare intensity of strain

Edit2: On Reddit someone reported strain with this panel on the Omen 15 2020. Really too bad about the panel lottery.

Reddit post

Answering my own question. I found the model number as AUO82ED which is from a company called AU Optronics, and not LG (LGD05C0) that some people have with HP Omen 15-dc1058. Should I be concerned? (Bought refurbished) Been getting eye strain everyday. Can someone with HP Omen 15 confirm their display type?

degen

After final testing, the HP Omen 15 is not good for me. There is strong pain inside of known good OS, and occurring in both Hybrid and Discrete modes. Whatever is going on here must be fairly strong for me to experience such a terrible migraine after testing. The dud panel hypothesis just doesn't sit well with me; there is something else here. The MUX switch and G-SYNC are not my cure. I am heading to a full e-ink solution now, as I see any other hardware solution is a dead end for me, and the situation is only getting worse.

si_edgey thanks so much. Is the Optimus feature good to allow me to do this or have I made a mistake? I specifically went for a gsync one based on previous comments.

It also says the following. Would the following be the case even if I’ve selected the discrete mode only? Ie will this disabling only work if my laptop is plugged in? If I disable intel in device manager would that help things or be unnecessary?

‘The display will not switch to discrete GPU in the following scenarios -

• The display will not switch to discrete GPU if the application in allow list is a DirectX9 application.

• The display will not switch to discrete GPU if there is a DirectX9 application already running.

• The display will not switch to discrete GPU if the system is running in battery mode (DC)

• The display will not switch to discrete GPU if there are any external monitors connected to the system

• The display will not switch to discrete GPU if an external-GPU (eGPU) is connected to the system.

JonnyT

Edit: This was incorrect information.

You will know the laptop is in Discrete GPU (Nvidia-only) mode because the Intel graphics will not be present in the device manager. There will be nothing to disable if it’s set up correctly.

Those conditions you posted are only valid when in the Automatically Select mode. When in “Nvidia GPU only” mode, the Nvidia GPU is always used.

Go into the Nvidia Control panel, then to Manage Display Modes, then select “NVIDIA GPU only”. If you do this the Intel graphics will not appear in the device manager.

si_edgey

That is my memory of using the Lenovo Legion 5, that using the Nvidia control panel to discrete mode was like using the switch in BIOS. You’re right though, I can’t be 100% sure. I hope I didn’t give bad advice.

@JonnyT

I am wondering how you set up your display mode settings in the Nvidia control panel, and what is the result in the device manager. Did you change to Nvidia GPU only in the Nvidia Control Panel? Are both Intel and Nvidia present in the device manager, or just Nvidia?